Maximum Lawyer

Speaker 1 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:12 So this is an interesting one because Becca wanted me to interview you and I. It's been a long time coming. It's been something we've been talking about doing for a while. I don't know how excited you are about it, but I. I want to start with a quote from Howard Schultz, the I guess he's not technically the founder of Starbucks, but he was the CEO of Starbucks. And it's success is best when it's shared. And I thought that was a really fitting way to start. So I want to get your thoughts on that.

Amy Mutrux 00:00:39 Well, I, I 1,000% agree. I think that building, creating, just like watching watching you, I'm going to say your success because that's kind of what it's been your career and then maximum lawyer. So not only are you an amazing attorney and being with you through that journey. You know, we've built a life together, so we're enjoying everything about it. And I love watching you grow. I myself have grown in the process.

Amy Mutrux 00:01:09 So I just think it's been it's been beautiful. I love that quote.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:13 Yeah. Thanks. Really good. There's a few things there I want to touch on. So the the growth I definitely want to get to because I think, you know, our marriage, we've had a ton of growth quite a bit like and individually we've grown as well. But yeah, I want to I want to hold off on that though. You would you'd made the comment about like, you know, my success and I know that you, you talk about that a lot and I and I view it as our success. Sure. Because it like it is something we're doing together. But you were you were very good at journalism, I mean. And you, you went to the J school at Mizzou. And so you have a journalism degree and. Right. You know, you went to school and you wanted to that's what you wanted to do. And I wonder, like, as our marriage has progressed, as your career has progressed with the firm, I wonder if you ever think about whether or not you, that's something you would have rather have done.

Amy Mutrux 00:02:01 No. 1,000%. No. Okay. I think a lot of people go to school and they they think that they might want to do one thing, and then they're going to turn around and want to try something else. And I think the whole point of living and experiencing is trial and error. And that was one thing, that there were things that, like fueled me during the day, like the hard deadlines. Like, I would I mean, I was I was just getting through it. And I think it helped me grow as an independent person. I mean, we weren't married at the time, and I was much younger, and I think I needed that talking to people, the communication side of it. I loved it, I did love that. But I can apply that to any aspect of my life and I don't regret going. I loved it. Being on camera is not my favorite. That was probably one of the things that stressed me out the most. But talking to people, stories like I love that everybody has a story.

Amy Mutrux 00:02:57 So, you know, when you're on an assignment and you're getting news, I think I don't want to get into it. But like with media, it's it's very targeted. And most of the time you're not getting everyone's thoughts and feelings. And some people don't like to talk to you. And, you know, you almost feel like you're missing out on that part. So I don't know. It is what it is. And it ended up the way that I think it was supposed to. And I only say your success yours because everything that we do. That's that's kind of the foundation for it. I've had so much to do with it. And I have helped that I've helped it grow. Don't get me wrong, I know what I've contributed, but I also know that this is more this is kind of like where you've led us. And and I love the fact that you've let us here.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:46 So I'm glad you said that because I sometimes I question whether or not you know how much of a role you play.

Amy Mutrux 00:03:51 Absolutely.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:52 I do see, I like that. That's good. Okay. Very good. Is there anything about your career that you would have gone back and like, hey, I wish I wouldn't have done that, or maybe anything you would have changed about it.

Amy Mutrux 00:04:04 No regrets. Like, no, no, I don't think so. I've always been pretty vocal about, like, if I feel like I'm capable of something, I can do it. I can get it done. I think there have been maybe some hires that we've made where maybe, I don't know, but those are learning moments. So I think even the failures, like we have to have them and we have to learn from them. So no, I would say there's nothing that I regret. I think on our personal note, even like as you said, like our marriage has grown, I think it's done it at maybe the right pace and maybe we hit that. Is it like when you get those wins, the tailwinds? Yeah, I think it came at the right moment.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:45 Yeah. Is you made a comment last week or so about I won't get it right the way you said it, but basically we've hit our stride. And I think that that was how we were like, you know, like stronger than ever kind of a thing. And like, I thought that was kind of a cool thing. What do you think has led to that trust?

Amy Mutrux 00:05:01 I just think that when you're around someone long enough and you just have to, I don't know. Like, what is it like? Trust fall. I think I use trust fall. You really have to rely on that person. And then after so long. And some people can get in their heads about things. You know, we we do have struggles just like everybody else does. I mean, the bills have to get paid. Kids have to get places. You know, we're we're we're married. We're not like single. We can't just do whatever we want to do without the other person not knowing. So I think just years of understanding and communicating and trusting, has a lot to do with that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:40 You know, I think I know what your thoughts on this, but I think right around the time we did 75 hard, I feel like there was a it was a massive turning point for us where we had and I don't know what it was and I don't know why, but I do feel like there was a massive amount of growth after that point. But and maybe you see it differently. But I definitely think that at that point there was a mass when we we turned that corner and we did that. There was something about it just kind of like it kind of took off.

Amy Mutrux 00:06:08 Yeah. Whenever I feel like whenever you're in a situation where and we did it like there was no compromising for 75 hard, there were days where at 1130, 12:00, I was having to get my butt, like, out of bed, like I had just laid down, and I was like, dang it, I didn't take my picture before I fell, and you're not supposed to fall asleep. And I knew I didn't want to have to go back and do that.

Amy Mutrux 00:06:29 And it would just be like, Amy, get up and take the photo. So, you know, we had to rely on each other a lot and motivate each other. And I know you're saying like, you can't really motivate someone, but.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:41 Well, I not I don't say that. What I say is that you're responsible for your own happiness. Is is what.

Amy Mutrux 00:06:47 But you you've actually used the the phrase you can't motivate someone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:52 I disagree because I do think you can motivate someone. Okay, but I agree. Good. But I do think that, I mean, they have to want to be motivated too though. There's that too.

Amy Mutrux 00:07:04 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But I a lot of people, there's different personality types. And some people actually need someone to be like, get the fuck out of it. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:12 Well, you can guess. That's okay. Okay. Yeah. They do. I mean, kind of like basic training, I guess. Kind of go back to that, like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:18 Yeah, there. But it's like you got to have that. Plus you got to have the desire to do it. Sure. Because otherwise it's just you're you're just going to go through the motions. Right. I mean, I think that if we I think there's a way you could just 75 hard where it's kind of like a, a lazy way kinda. Although this is really there's really no. But I do think you could have like taken we could have taken like the easy path. We didn't we didn't modify the rules. We didn't like it. So there was like we had to kind of stick to it. But I think the more important thing you talked about was like the like working it. We had kind of worked as a team. I, I don't know if I could have done it by myself, I really don't. It really did take you, could it? I don't know.

Amy Mutrux 00:07:58 It was. You've done a great job staying vegan for seven. How long have you been vegan?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:03 20.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:03 20? Yeah, yeah. You've you've you've you've kind of shifted into the vegetarian.

Amy Mutrux 00:08:08 Yeah. Well, also 41 year old woman. There's a lot of other things too. So I know you said like 75 hard was a great journey for both of us. I agree with that. But then you turn around and you stop doing two 45 minute workouts a day, watching every single thing that you eat. No cheating.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:28 No dessert meals. Yeah. No late meals. No late night snacks. Right? Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:08:32 So everything that we had there, if you don't continue that, things kind of start to slowly regress. And then you are looking at maybe like where you were before, but you know mentally that you are capable of doing it again. And I love that I have that. But that also helped me get to my next thing that I had to kind of do on my own. But also you were like very encouraging. So I don't know if like we want to get into all of that, but.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:05 We'll get into whatever you want to get into.

Amy Mutrux 00:09:07 Okay. Well, I'm just saying, like it's not just 75 hard. There's always going to be a new struggle that you have to overcome. And you're right. It's about having the motivation yourself to do what needs to be done. Yeah. To make that change. And I know that I have it within me. I've done it and I want to keep doing it. So I think that's what helps too.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:29 I think what you touched on, I think is really important because it's you can do what 75 heard teaches you is that you can do a lot more in your day than what you think you can. Yeah, absolutely. You just it's a matter of just focusing on the right things.

Amy Mutrux 00:09:45 Yeah. And do you want to? All the time. No, I want to just, like, rot in bed and watch TV with you or, you know, have fun. But we know that we can if we want to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:56 Now, Monday was a travel day, but like, we kind of did that was just kind of like later on all day and hung out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:00 And, you know, it was.

Amy Mutrux 00:10:02 Our first day in New York. Didn't leave, didn't leave the room.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:06 It helped that it was pouring like crazy. It was like the subway was flooded and all that kind of stuff. So that was it did help with that. But it's like sometimes you need those days. Yeah. So let's let's talk about when you join the firm though. Let's go back to the beginning. What was that like at the beginning for you?

Amy Mutrux 00:10:25 I don't think it was okay. It's it's far different than it is now, but it wasn't different than what I was doing before. So I commuted a couple of days a week to Saint Louis. And I used the term a lot for myself, like the lone wolf. It was the only one that was in there. Like with marketing, you were busy. The rest of the team had their jobs. No one else. You know, I didn't really communicate with anyone else. It was just get in there, get the job done, get our name out there.

Amy Mutrux 00:10:56 And again, a lot of trial and error. But so there were some days where I was beating myself up. I didn't feel like I was good enough. And then as the numbers started to kind of come in, I was like, I'm good at this. Like, I'm okay at this. And then a lot of the other attorneys that were in Maximum Lawyer, just friends that you knew asking questions about how how are we getting, you know, on the first page of Google. And they were struggling and it was just, I don't know, it was good. Like I felt okay. And then I started earning my place and kind of grew from there. But I guess you're just asking about starting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:35 So yeah, I was just like, just like how how the transition was for you. So it.

Amy Mutrux 00:11:40 Was.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:40 Good. I do remember early days? We were kind of there was like a I wouldn't call it a power struggle between the two. But there was kind of it was some adjustment, some adjustment period.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:50 And I don't know if you remember that much.

Amy Mutrux 00:11:52 While I was just doing marketing. Oh, maybe it's because, okay, so I like to ask a lot of questions. I don't, you know, like whenever it's like follow these instructions, do this, then this, then this. And I like sometimes I like to find, find my own way. But I need to know like where to start. And I think that you give instruction different than I take and I process. So I think maybe that's where it came in. But I know you and I want to respect you, so I do my best to just.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:25 Well, it did seem like we were kind of we butted heads quite a bit at the beginning.

Amy Mutrux 00:12:30 I think we just butt heads anyway.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:32 I don't agree. I don't agree with that necessarily, but it did seem like at the beginning we we butted heads more, and the way I remember it was that you didn't necessarily like to take instruction from me at all. You wanted to kind of do your own thing.

Amy Mutrux 00:12:50 It's the way that you approach.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:52 Is that what? Is that what it is? Okay. Critique me. How? How could I do? Am I have I? Have I done better? I guess is the way I start.

Amy Mutrux 00:13:00 I feel like now you just stay away from me. Like or just avoid.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:05 It's not true.

Amy Mutrux 00:13:06 Okay. I think it's better now. You know, when you talk to other people. I think it's just who I am to you. I so I can't, I'm not gonna. I don't think. I don't think it's gonna change. I don't want to give you. I don't know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:19 How to give. Let me ask you another way. How do you like to get feedback? Because it's the way I can, I can I can improve and make it better.

Amy Mutrux 00:13:25 I think it's just it's clear. But there's some understanding or something behind it. I don't know how to explain it, but it's. It's not like Amy when you, you know, like, I don't know, like, it's.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:37 Like, am I to direct?

Amy Mutrux 00:13:39 But I like direct. I just think that there's like some attitude behind it. Like, almost like, you know, better than this or there's like there's something. It's the tone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:49 It's the.

Amy Mutrux 00:13:50 Tone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:51 It might be is I have high expectations for you and maybe what it is because. Sure. Yeah. And I don't know maybe what it is, I, I do think it's funny because people like they'll ask me about like our working relationship. And I tell them how, like, I talk to you like I do any other employee. And they they find that hard to believe.

Amy Mutrux 00:14:07 Because it's not it's not true.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:09 Well, it's probably not true because I'm harder on you than any other anybody else. I think that that's a fair critique of me, is that I am a little harder on you.

Amy Mutrux 00:14:16 Kristen, can you call in?

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:20 Yes. If Kristen called in right now, there have been several leadership meetings where everyone else has just been kind of watching us as I, as we've, you know, have our heated discussion about things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:29 Yeah. But I think it's healthy. It's better than like.

Amy Mutrux 00:14:32 Any partners or any anybody that's in a business together with multiple goals. Is going to have that. I just think that it shows passion. You know, the need for I I'm not going to say that, you know, you like perfection at all. I think that there's there's a degree of that maybe. But we both have the same goal in goal in mind.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:55 So I've always said there's no better partner that you can have in your firm or any business than your partner, than your than your spouse. Like you just I.

Amy Mutrux 00:15:03 Would believe that as long as you're good partners.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:06 Yeah. Well okay. So that's a good that's a good topic to get into. Is that like how the marriage can affect the the firm and the firm can affect the marriage. You can talk about that a little bit.

Amy Mutrux 00:15:16 Sure.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:17 Okay.

Amy Mutrux 00:15:18 Okay. Let's see where do we start how the marriage can leak into the firm.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:24 Yeah. Well let me let me get you a little bit more separating.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:28 And I don't think it's possible to separate work from business, but I think we can create some buffers because we had one of the one of the big I wouldn't call disagreements. One of the big issues we had was talking about work in bed. Oh yeah, that was a big one, which it still kind of had.

Amy Mutrux 00:15:45 You switch off and on all the time. It's like, okay, so if we want to get from A to B, we are going to have to work this many hours. That means date nights in bed will order food. We'll grind it out like working.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:00 One one time. I ever mention.

Amy Mutrux 00:16:02 That you're like for the next six months? So that doesn't mean for like two.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:05 Days, like two years ago, it was like two years ago. I mentioned that, but okay. But I'm.

Amy Mutrux 00:16:09 But also you've said you enjoy working. You don't enjoy talking about working.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:15 Well. So what I don't enjoy is I'm about to fall asleep and you ask me a question about an email that you got earlier in the day.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:26 That's that's where. But but this is I think this is a part of it too, is like knowing the dividing lines, right. Where I guess respecting the other one's boundaries in a certain way, because you were, I think you were okay with just like discussing work in bed and just up to like. Yeah. Because I'm not, you know.

Amy Mutrux 00:16:45 Trying to get to like, you know, I'm trying I'm trying to get us there. I'm trying to do what I can and pull my weight. Yeah. And I felt like that was the only time of the day that we could, like, talk about it, because, yeah, we worked together. But this is another thing that I don't think a lot of people understand. I am rarely with you. I'm rarely with you, and I rarely talk to you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:05 We're around each other, but not. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:17:08 No, you're either recording or you're in court or, you know, getting things done. And I'm not, like, right next to you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:18 Now, do you think that that's a positive or negative or indifferent.

Amy Mutrux 00:17:22 Positive I think I mean, you don't want me on your back all the time. I'm not like the office pet. Like I'm. They're doing shit and so are you. And we have to get our things done. What I do love is if we have breaks and we can play around and we can, you know, talk and maybe have lunch on occasion, that's something else that we don't do a whole lot. But, you know, when we do, we enjoy it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:47 Yeah. Like last week we the office was closed on Thursday. So I think on on Wednesday we went to lunch together. Or maybe we maybe we went on Thursday, I don't know. But yeah, we do try to find that time like when we have like. Let me just ask you like what are some other things that you think we do that helps I guess keep the communication flowing but keeps the marriage strong. Oh, you're smiling at me, What? Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:12 You you. Well, I'm talking more like date night. Things like that. Oh.

Amy Mutrux 00:18:17 Oh, yes. Date night.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:19 Okay. Yes. Okay.

Amy Mutrux 00:18:21 That's perfect.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:22 Okay.

Amy Mutrux 00:18:23 We do like so our weekly, you know, date night. And it and it's usually set. So it's not like spur of the moment thing which you know I mean me, I kind of like surprises a little bit like that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:34 But we do. We mix things like this. We do? Yeah, yeah we do.

Amy Mutrux 00:18:37 But this will force us like. And the kids, the kids need routine. So they also know Thursday's date night. Mom and dad are going to go do whatever, and then we'll be back later. So it just gives us time to like, talk and communicate, eat food that maybe our kids don't want to eat, drive around, just I don't know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:59 Yeah. There was a it's interesting to say that because a couple weeks ago we had to move date night to Friday because it was usually on Thursdays and they're even like, well, date nights on Thursday.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:07 And we're like, well, we're it's like it's kind of like they know. They just know that that Thursdays date night. And that's what we're doing. I do remember even back in 2020 when everything got shut down, we still got we made sandwiches and we went down by the river. Yeah. That was kind of cool.

Amy Mutrux 00:19:22 Yeah, yeah. Ate in the bed of the truck.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:24 Yep. Yeah. Like so like it it is. We started that. I remember someone at the first Max Lacon had recommended that where everyone had stood up and they had like gave like one recommendation or something like that, or one tip, and that's where that had initially come from. And so since 20, I guess 2016 or 17, whenever we had the first conference, we've been doing it ever since. Yeah, yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:19:49 Well, and I will say that's another thing. It's not one of those things that's easy to keep up with too. You have times like days whatever, where it's just not it's just maybe I don't want to do it.

Amy Mutrux 00:20:00 Maybe I don't want to, but then you end up, you just do it anyway. And you know, you're you're there. You're in it together again. I think it's that it trust and communication and just I mean, that gives you a little bit of a window of an opportunity to like, talk about whatever's bothering you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:20 Yeah, yeah. All right. So let's let's shift gears a little bit and talk a little bit about, I guess, the future. And I wonder what if you could achieve one thing with the firm in the next ten years? And I know that's kind of a big ask. And you could I mean, you could go, you know, 3 to 5 years if you want, but in the next ten years if you if you could achieve one thing, what do you think it would be?

Amy Mutrux 00:20:45 Okay. So I love our team and I love watching them grow. I mean, we have people coming in within their first year and they're like getting unsung Legal Hero awards.

Amy Mutrux 00:20:54 I would say that I want everybody on the team to feel successful in some way, and to be out in the community. I think empowering them to all do something like that. I don't know if that's my biggest one, but it's definitely coming to my mind right now. Also, you know, having someone there that can not replace you, but I just think that you do so much for the firm and you wear so many hats. I mean, I know I do too, but maybe having someone that's like you that can take over the things that you don't want to do. Helping find that person.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:32 I feel like I should be offended by that, but I'm not. I'm just teasing.

Amy Mutrux 00:21:35 Me. You have like 200 hats that you just flip off, flip off and on, and it's just it's amazing watching you do it. It gives me anxiety watching you, but you're just so good at it. I don't know how you're so good at.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:50 Quincy has said something like that last week, and I said, it's just because we have a great team, which is the next, which is I want to shift to because of that, because I do have I think we have a fantastic team.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:00 We do. And that's because of you and Kristen. You and Kristen have put together a fantastic team. You all are you. The two of you are the ones that vet everyone that comes through, and you've done a really, really remarkable job. So I wonder what let's start with. Like some of the things that you look for whenever a candidate comes through and like what are let's just start with that because I want to get to like somebody maybe some of the red flags too. But sure, what are like some of the things you're like, okay. This is someone that we would definitely want to consider.

Amy Mutrux 00:22:29 I like to think a little outside of the box, because I think if we're looking for a mold of someone, it's a little hard to see things that they might be able to bring to the table.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:39 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:22:40 I don't know, I like to think that people are capable of so much more. So not looking for a cookie cutter mold. But honesty is one thing. People that can communicate well.

Amy Mutrux 00:22:49 It's getting really hard to find people that are good at communicating very much. What the hell is up with that? But Kristin and I look for people that are personable that can communicate with us, and from there, it's just like, you know, of course we have that little quiz that they have to take and, you know, pass it. They have. I mean, they have to have a brain, right? So yeah, but I think overall.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:13 It's.

Amy Mutrux 00:23:14 A good conversation. Yeah. Good conversation where they're attentive in our interviews because, you know, we have multiple stages of our interview process. and Kristen gets them first. So I feel like by the time they get to me, she's already like she has a feeling like, okay, well, this could be good or I don't, I don't know, but I usually get the feel of how she is kind of like how she's thinking the person's going to do. So. I like to go in kind of knowing that I know you don't, but I do, because then I can look for other things.

Amy Mutrux 00:23:49 So where you it's like the negative, like you're focused on the negative. I want to focus on everything but that to see what else I know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:59 I think you think that but what I it's because sometimes what I'll do is in the interview because by the time they've gotten to to the last interview, they've been through several steps. And so I'm definitely not focusing on the negative, but sometimes I'll zero in on something where I think it could be a massive red flag for us. And so I'm trying to that I'm, I'm picking at it like like for example, the interview we did a couple weeks ago where they uncovered something that I think would have been a really bad thing for the firm. Sure. Or it would have been a really bad candidate for the firm that had not come up yet. And so sometimes what I'll do is I'll kind of pull back the onion a little bit, and I, I do that by like oddball questions, like, I'll throw some really oddball questions out there to sort of get them comfortable enough to open up even more.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:48 And you, the two of you already ask really good questions that open them up quite a bit. And like one of my one of the things you will always ask in the last interview is like, you know, or the the what makes you a nerd or a weirdo kind of a thing, which goes back to one of the Max law cons where I talked about nerds and weirdos. Which side note what are you? Clearly you're a go ahead.

Amy Mutrux 00:25:10 No.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:10 You're weirdo. We know you're weird. You're absolutely right. It's fantastic. No, but, like you're that. That's so funny. You said because you you were talking about, like, you're looking at those other things outside the box. And like, we found a lot of very valuable people by doing that and not looking for the cookie cutter.

Amy Mutrux 00:25:28 Yeah. Personality types is another thing that I've like. I went down that rabbit hole. I learned a lot. There are a lot of different tests that people can take that you know, you're looking at different roles in our firm that require different personality types.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:45 Sure.

Amy Mutrux 00:25:46 1,000%. So and then another thing is moving someone that's been in a a role to something else. They still have that same personality type. Maybe they're not going to fit in that other one. So there's a lot of trial and error here. But I think for certain that that is something that I look at. Yeah, all the time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:07 I found a really interesting when I went, whenever I went back and analyzed all the case manager scores and like they all had like a certain number within like a 1 or 2 range. It was for Colby, the Colby scores. I know that you you like. Because we carry did the Enneagram training, which I thought was really fun. Sure. So Carrie did she's really into all that kind of stuff. And she did any grimness? There was another. I thought she did another one, too, but she really dug deep on the Enneagram, which I thought was really fascinating because she understands it so deeply. She does.

Amy Mutrux 00:26:38 But didn't she say, I think that she went to like, their school like.

Amy Mutrux 00:26:41 Or is she, like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:41 Learning like she did? Yeah. So she really did. And I wonder what's your favorite of the. Do you like Colby more? Do you like the Enneagram more?

Amy Mutrux 00:26:49 I like to. Well, I like to use them both. Yeah, that's the thing. It's they. I don't think that you can just necessarily have one over the other. I think that you have to kind of look at maybe the overall big picture. And here's the thing. If you don't believe that that stuff is like real, then all I say is look at the highs and look at the lows of the personality types, because that is probably what you're going to be dealing with if someone's really struggling, or if you notice that they are doing very well for themselves and how to like, keep them there, what they need to stay there, and then the signs of when things start to decline. So a lot of people are like, yeah, I don't believe that. I think Kashif Kashif is the one who is just like, no, it's not real.

Amy Mutrux 00:27:37 You can't you can't just generalize people like that. I'm like, but there's a good there's a reason for this.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:43 And there is very. Yeah, he's very black and white. There's no grey area with clashes. He's the very ones and zeros. That's that's what's just fitting for him. He's a CTO so it's kind of fitting for him. So someone asked me something the other day. I think it might have been Jeremy Danielson. He said it may not be him. So someone asked me, they go, what? Like what did Amy and Kristen like? How do they feel when you say no to a candidate? And they've spent all that time with them and I. And I was like, it doesn't seem you all don't show me that you're frustrated. Although there was one candidate fairly recently, I thought maybe it was frustrating to you all, but I think it was the one that we we kind of pulled back the onion, and it seemed like there's some things going on. Yeah, yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:28:29 There's not been a time. And usually you don't veto someone, right? You you don't. You're like, let me think on it. And then we may never get an answer from you. So we just have to act on it. But I mean, you found Kristen.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:45 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:28:47 I found her. Yeah. You hired me. Yeah. I think you're really good at that. I think whenever you have, like, a million other things going on, it's hard for you to, like, focus on it. So you've given that to us. And I think that we've done a good job. however, there's no frustration to be had. You're not spiteful about it. I mean, you have a very good personality, so I don't think that there's ever been a time that Kristen or I have ever been upset.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:14 Yeah, I think. And I guess I don't want to.

Amy Mutrux 00:29:16 I think we're just, like, upset at the process because it's really hard to find good people. That has nothing to do with you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:22 Yeah. And I won't mention which one it was, but like, there are somewhere like I will just say, hey, I don't know, I'm gonna let you all make the decision on this because I sometimes I just don't have a good read and I and that's, that's why I do sometimes dig in so deep with some of these and like, I'll go in. One of my favorite things to do is go and actually read their resume. Imagine that. And then go and pick at pieces of the resume that they put in there. And sometimes it's very clear that it's bullcrap. Right. It's like they've just put it in there because it sounded good and they didn't really have experience with.

Amy Mutrux 00:29:57 It as AI making these resumes anymore. Because let me tell you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:02 Well, I did a show on that recently where like it is, AI is creating them and then also analyzing them and and you're not getting a lot of the, the real, the realness of it. And that's why I think that our hiring process is so great because we you you can't fake that funk like you can fake the the reason why we have such a detailed hiring process is because when, as at State Farm a long time ago, and with that internship program, I was on there with some people that were just seemed like awful people.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:33 And I was always wondering, like, how could they? How did they make it through? And when you think of like the standard hiring process for most companies, let alone firms like, that's a big company, it was you apply, you fill out a little bit of information, you do a job interview and they hire you based on basically a job interview. Because really what's what?

Amy Mutrux 00:30:52 They just want the help. Just please come help us.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:55 And it's like a job interview is just not enough. Like think about like they can like you all are analyzing the consistency of what they have told you all after now what for interactions at least with them. And that and one of the things that you and Kristen will say, well, let's go back and look at our emails with them and see what they say, because you can learn a lot. Kristen.

Amy Mutrux 00:31:20 Kristen's really good at that too. Yeah. And she gets in our heads so much about it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:25 Why?

Amy Mutrux 00:31:26 How long did it take him to reply to the email? Like all of this stuff where you know me, I'm like, from day to day, like doing all this stuff, but, like, she keeps track of all of that.

Amy Mutrux 00:31:36 Yeah. How fast are they on it? And I'm like, hopefully we hear back.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:41 And then also the detailed notes like she'll take on the reference interviews as well where. Oh she'll mention those. And whenever we have our little powwow afterwards she'll have, she'll actually, you know, make well and, or sometimes she'll be like, let me go back and look my notes on this because she'll have like detailed notes, which is, which is really good too.

Amy Mutrux 00:31:59 Right. Well, it's so like it's not a typical hiring process. So I think a lot of people that are in the market for jobs, and I can't tell you the last time I've interviewed, I can only imagine how hard it would be. But they are coming into this, probably applying to multiple places, and then they're like, golly, these people have me jumping through hoops. So half the time I think that they're just trying to find like their references. And then we have them scheduled the call. Yeah, right. That's the part that throws a lot of people off.

Amy Mutrux 00:32:30 They're like, I gave you the names. Why am I doing this right? So that could take a while. It's not normal. But if they're motivated and a lot of people that do the first interview actually. So the phone interview with Kristen and then the first interview, zoom, Skype, whatever with Kristen and myself, that's usually when they're like, I think this is where I want to be. So I'm going to do that. So at least that comes after.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:59 Yeah. So I a lot of times I hear people say, well, that's just too long. Your process takes too long. I wonder what your thoughts are of that.

Amy Mutrux 00:33:05 I mean, it's either that or hire the wrong person and then have to go down that. I mean, chances are, even if we go through this process, it's not perfect. Yeah. I mean, it's not. We still have people that kind of slide through that probably should not be here, should not be here. If we didn't do this, I can only imagine how much higher the turnover would be.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:27 Yeah. What are some of the pet peeves that you have at the beginning of the hiring process? Or I guess maybe even throughout where you're like, yeah, no, not going to work.

Amy Mutrux 00:33:38 No call, no shows.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:39 Oh definitely that.

Amy Mutrux 00:33:40 Yeah for sure. The other ones I get really turned off with how people get on their cameras.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:48 Okay.

Amy Mutrux 00:33:48 So bad. Like, if it is like, we didn't take time to think about the background you get either they're trying to hide something behind them where their face is so far up on the camera, it's like you're looking up or up. Their nostrils are like something else. You got had some weird ones, but that's just something that sticks out. I don't know, maybe that it shouldn't matter so much, but I'm like, would you want a client seeing you like that? Like, you know, take a little bit of time to think about it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:18 I mean, I think it's I don't know, I think that it's smart, like the appearance I like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:23 But what's interesting is to me is like, no one dresses up anymore.

Amy Mutrux 00:34:25 No. They do. Oh they do. Actually, our newest hire, your new executive assistant every interview she did. Yeah. I was like, girl. Like, let your neck breathe. But she felt good. I mean, she got on there, and that's how she wanted to dress, I think. What was that saying? Like, dress for the job you want, not the job you have. And I'm like, over here in my sweats and stuff. I'm like, I got the job I want. But like, for that, like, it's still true for that younger generation. And I also like to feel good in clothes, don't get me wrong. Like if I was interviewing, I would know how to dress, I would know how to dress. And some people Bowl, t shirt, shorts for an executive assistant position or anything for a law firm. I still think that you should try.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:15 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:35:15 I mean, we like to be comfortable, but we're wanting to make a good impression and show how much we can dress ourselves up if we had to appear or do something like that. Like there's a time and place for being casual and usually an interview. To get a job is not one.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:29 Something about that position makes people want to go to law school.

Amy Mutrux 00:35:32 It's working under you. I mean, it's really like I think it's in I think some people, they're like, okay, law, let me take that position, just see how it goes. And then a couple months later, it's like getting pregnant. Yeah. Like you work around you and but no, like, they just they just want more and they, they see how much fun it is and maybe not stereotypical of what maybe they see on TV. You make it look like it's a life, like a lifestyle that is attainable.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:05 If our new one goes to law school, I'm going to lose my mind. I just. That's.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:09 It would be three in a row.

Amy Mutrux 00:36:10 You know, she just had a baby, so.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:12 Well.

Amy Mutrux 00:36:13 I don't.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:13 Know. We'll see. I know that we're. Hopefully she's like. Because the last two have been fantastic and we just, you know, hopefully. You know like I, I hate I hate, hated losing both of them and Jacqueline she stayed with the firm as an intern, you know. And then Morgan, I'm sure at some point she'll, you know, stay with the firm as an intern or come back to the firm as an intern. Although I told Jacqueline not to work her first year, but she she did it anyways. Yeah. So I, I would not recommend it. But anyways, I want to. So we transitioned like this is we're going to stay on hiring for a second like we did the whole top grading thing. And we completely changed the dynamic of our firm. And I wonder what you what do you think was like, if there's one thing to point to, like what changed the culture the most.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:03 Because I feel like our culture is so fantastic. At the time I wasn't so happy with the culture. So I wonder what your thoughts are. Like how? Like what was like? What's like the one thing you could you think you could point to that led to such a fantastic culture that we have?

Amy Mutrux 00:37:19 It's going to sound bad because I mean I've worked a little bit of background, so I have not always worked for you. I've worked for other people. So working for ourselves, you know, there's a, there's that thought that, you know, if you own a business, run a business, you're like, you are in it for yourself. And when you're working for someone else, you're trying to support yourself. But you know that you're growing their business. So coming from that and now being where I am, I don't want people to feel like they're working for us, that they're working for themselves. Like you have to grow yourself into the person that you want to be, whether you stay here or you do not.

Amy Mutrux 00:38:02 We want what's best for you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:03 It's one of our core values.

Amy Mutrux 00:38:04 Absolutely. So I think some people that we had here before truly didn't. They might have said that that's what they believed. And. But in their core, I do not believe that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:18 Their actions didn't back up with.

Amy Mutrux 00:38:19 Those. Absolutely. So if I can point to something, I'm going to tell you, I just think it's disingenuous. People that say that they are. You know, they're in it for all of the good things that they do. Meet our core values, but actually they do not. So I actually look at those all the time. And it's really hard when we do our quarterly meetings. And, you know, I go through each one and I'm, I'm trying to identify like, okay, well this person can be all of them. This person is definitely like three, you know, hard core. Like I can see I try to see everyone meeting them in some quarters. it's easier than others.

Amy Mutrux 00:39:00 And so that just goes to show you that, you know, not everything's always going to be perfect. And sometimes we really do have to work and try hard. But for some people it was just like maybe one out of the six.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:14 Yeah I, I look to the start stop, keep. We're like how different it is than what it was back then. Sure. Yeah. There were so many stop doings back then. And now it's like like for those of the people that don't know, like, we go through this with a quarterly meeting. Every single quarterly meeting is like, these are the things we should start doing. These are the things we should stop doing. These are the things we should keep doing. And a couple years ago, three years ago, like the stop doing list was so long we didn't have any like we if we had, maybe we had one, but we're like, I forced it because like, I made.

Amy Mutrux 00:39:46 You're like, I'm gonna call on you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:48 Like, let's give me one, like, give me something to work on.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:51 And it was actually I start doing that. They just worded it differently to make it a stop doing. So. What are your thoughts? Because I thought that was a really good indication that the culture is is still strong.

Amy Mutrux 00:40:03 Yeah, I didn't want to attribute it to anything really negative, except for the fact that, you know, we were a growing firm. There's again, trial and error. You got to let yourself just kind of like have room for trying things and then maybe just stopping them, like, maybe we shouldn't keep doing that. So depending on which ones you were talking about stopping I do see our list has decreased, but I'm only going to say that that's just because we have been so open to trying things, you know, making people happy. We want to include everyone's thoughts, very open to constructive feedback, ideas, you know, anything that they have. We want to make sure that we try it. So I am just thinking maybe stop certain little things that we had tried, but only in like, you know, we just wanted everybody to be happy.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:54 Yeah, I want to transition and I want to talk about, let me use the phrase the quote. Quote unquote the boss's wife and something Mrs..

Amy Mutrux 00:41:03 Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:04 Mrs. matrix yes, we talked about that recently, but I do I do find it interesting that you've been able to position yourself in a way where you're not the boss's wife, right? You are the CEO. And I wonder how you talk about how you were able to do that, because that's not an easy thing to do.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:22 Did I have I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:24 100%.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:25 Have.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:25 I 100%, yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:26 I don't know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:27 100%.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:28 It's funny because even whenever I talk to clients, it's really hard to say or hard not to say. Yeah, that I'm Tyson's wife.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:35 I rarely ever will mention that you're my wife. Like I'll say, they'll say, I'll just say Amy. I'll say, yeah, I won't, I will, I won't say my wife. I won't mention using my wife because I do think it it does take away a little bit, you know, in a way.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:50 And it depends.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:51 I think there is a like, okay, so why is she there then? just because she's your wife. You're the lawyer. She a lawyer? No.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:57 Right.

Amy Mutrux 00:41:58 Why is she there?

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:00 So.

Amy Mutrux 00:42:01 And that's okay. I mean, I think it's common once you talk to me. I think that's why. That's why it changes. Because people hear me. They talk to me. It's same for maximum lawyer, though. That's Tyson's wife. I'm not a lawyer. I don't actually belong in this group. I just come for the free food.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:19 That's not true. You and I do a great job of help.

Amy Mutrux 00:42:21 I get it. No, I do, and I love the people here. I almost do this. I think I do this all the time. Like high school. College. Like your groups of friends. Then become my groups of friends. It's true. Like I will steal your friends, Mindy. Like anybody. I will steal them away. Because I do think that you.

Amy Mutrux 00:42:40 You have a great group of people. So when we're here and when we're talking, I might not have a whole lot to contribute to some of those conversations. However, we have a good time, and I think that's what it's about, like uplifting people. That part I can do. I can do all of that. I might not be able to tell you what you need to do, but I can't even do that with our lawyers in the firm because I'm not a lawyer.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:03 No, but you can. You've done a really good job of navigating that, though. Where? And I think part of it is it comes down to hiring to where we're not hiring assholes, you know? But you've done a good job of navigating the there is like whenever, you know, the firm I worked for before, there was definitely different levels. The attorneys were at a higher level. And by what I mean by that is like they were viewed as a as above, not just like from like a working relationship, like they were just viewed as like a higher class almost.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:35 And I hated that.

Amy Mutrux 00:43:36 And yeah, because some of them could just be garbage humans. Yeah. And then you're sitting there like, trying to look up to them.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:42 Yeah. But you've done a good job of navigating that where you're very respectful but also like you're their boss too. And you've so you've been able to navigate that. So I wonder how you've been able to navigate that.

Amy Mutrux 00:43:53 Easy, because I think the idea of a boss, okay, if someone needs to be, I don't know, let go or we need to have a tough conversation. I mean, I'll have that, but I would have I would have conversations with anyone. So I don't view myself as like being the person like a boss. I guess I just don't view myself as that. I am their peer and I'm working with them and we are. We are working together to achieve something. So I've had bosses in the past that like to it's like the foot down or I'm coming to the building to check things out.

Amy Mutrux 00:44:35 What is that like ruling by fear? Like that is shit like that doesn't that's not how we work here. And in fact, like, we've had clients or opposing counsel, you know, call in and get out our people to try to put them in a I'm sorry, I need this person to be productive for a full day. And if you're going to come in here and mess with them, it's a no. It's a no for me every time. And so I think having my people's back, you know, like I, I want to be I want to be that person. I don't want anyone to be afraid of me. I actually probably do need to work on ways that I can set more expectations for them. Of course I want them to grow, they know that. But maybe there's there's more growth that I can do on myself. I know that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:26 Well. You don't have to. You don't have to rule by fear. As long as you have like that open environment, you have the you have accountability.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:33 You're using the job scorecards and the KPIs, and everyone's kind of focusing on everything. That is because everyone knows what the game is. Everyone. I think that's that's part of it, is like being open and honest about things. Then you don't have to rule by fear because it's not going to do any good because no, they already know whether or not they're achieving what they're supposed to be achieving or not, because you've been talking about it already. Sure. So you're not just like, dropping the hammer. Which I do find it interesting. It's like if the people that call in and act that way, if they knew like, like behind the scenes, like we're just kind of like, whatever. Like. Sure. Or what I also find it interesting is like, you call them out on it and they immediately apologize. Oh, no, no, you need to call them back and apologize to them. Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:46:14 No, no, no, you didn't just yell at me for 30 minutes.

Amy Mutrux 00:46:16 You yelled at.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:17 Yeah, yeah. Tell them I'm sorry. No, no, no. You're going to call them and tell them that you're sorry.

Amy Mutrux 00:46:22 I know, right. But then, like, is that ruling my my fear?

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:25 Like, I don't care where the camera. I obviously can't miss the class name, but I.

Amy Mutrux 00:46:30 Just like to. I'm just like, you know, I just want to let you know. I want to express that I don't feel like what you did was appropriate. Yeah. That's not how we talked to our people here. So I'm not going to make them apologize. I'm not a parent if they're a if they want to do the right thing, they're going to do the right thing. I'm going to let them know my thoughts on it, just like I would anybody. But I still that's not ruling by fear. And that is it's and I don't agree with any context of like ruling by fear.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:58 Yeah there is. It's interesting sometimes the the clients that can be the most difficult.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:03 How you when you kind of put your foot down they it's almost like they needed that and then like like the one client I'm thinking of, I top of my head. I can't mention his name.

Amy Mutrux 00:47:14 I think I know who you're.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:15 Talking, but like, he's like one of our biggest advocates now, you know, like like we had to, like, kind of, like, have that firm conversation with him. And now he's like, he loves us. And sometimes they just somebody just you just kind of have to put your foot down and and like, stand up for your team. But then also like just stand up to the bully.

Amy Mutrux 00:47:34 Well like the days of Amazon and customer service with Disney and all these people, they're just like know if they can raise one complaint they're getting something going their way. And it's almost like a I think it's like a game for people. They're like, let's see how far I can push this, because I want my phone call, I want this, I want that, and I think that they will do it.

Amy Mutrux 00:47:56 Maybe not because they're unhappy, but just because they want to see what more they can get. And if you let them know that's that's not this, we're not that. So I mean, we're working with quartz. We're working with a, you know, opposing counsel. There's multiple parties involved here. This isn't like a you get to call me and you get to do this like every time. So the open conversation with them is humanizing the experience that they're having. So they know there are other people here. We're not robots. We're not computers like we're people.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:30 So that's a great point.

Amy Mutrux 00:48:31 I think letting them know and and actually talking about it, a lot of people, they're they they're going to keep going until someone actually says that. And I think so many of us are getting frustrated by being treated that way, and then we just keep getting treated that way. Instead of saying, hold on, wait, you know, don't go off of a script. If I called someone else and I started ranting, they're gonna go off of a script.

Amy Mutrux 00:48:57 I'm sorry, Amy, I am. I'm doing everything that I can here. And unfortunately, you know, it's just very robotic.

Tyson Mutrux 00:49:07 Yeah. Something I've noticed about you since we've gotten married, but then also since joined the firm. is you're changing your mindset, and I wonder if, like, what habits or routines that maybe you've added or what's shifted your past. You have more much more of a positive mindset, more of a growth mindset. And I wonder what, what's shifted and what's led to that. And if there's anything you do on a regular basis to make sure that that you remain positive.

Amy Mutrux 00:49:36 There's probably a lot. But I think growth for people should last a lifetime. I don't think that we should, like, ever stop. So each little stage of my mindset, growth and remaining positive has to do with, you know, kids getting to a certain age. I mean, I was a very anxious like, early mom. The I was, what, 28 when we had our first isn't very young, but I guess it's young to people that are having kids now.

Amy Mutrux 00:50:05 And so I was just going through all these different stages of my life very early on, and I didn't quite know what to do. We lived in Saint Louis, we didn't live around family, and I've never been like a gym person, like I never found anything for myself. It was just the family and just going day to day, just doing what I needed to do. So I don't want to say it was like mundane, but that's usually what it is, right? You wake up, you eat, you do your work, you pick up the kids and there's like nothing spontaneous in there and to get out to see things. Adventuring? Of course. Going with you. Maximum lawyer. Taekwondo was another thing that gave me a little bit of an outlet. Kind of like a gym, but it gave me a goal to work toward, which has been really fun. Also empowering myself, like knowing how how well I can do there. Competing was probably an element of it that really sparked that because I was doing pretty good there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:07 Well, for the for people that don't know, like you're a black belt and.

Amy Mutrux 00:51:10 I'm going for my second degree.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:11 Second degree, right. Which is awesome. And you you've competed you've gotten lots of first place, lots of second place, mostly first place.

Amy Mutrux 00:51:20 And I got a first place district, which that's like three states that compete together. And I took it for what was it for my forms.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:31 And you got robbed on the other one.

Amy Mutrux 00:51:32 Well, weapons and sparring. Yeah, all of them. And sparring. I mean, that's like physical contact and I'm a pretty small person.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:40 You're the smallest one at all. Yeah. Yeah. And so. And, like, you're dealing with these ladies that like long legs. You're ducking.

Amy Mutrux 00:51:47 The veto. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:49 Has that. Has that helped you with anything when it comes to like leadership or. I mean clearly your confidence it's boost your confidence. But as it helps you with anything when it comes to like just either, you know, dealing with the kids.

Amy Mutrux 00:52:00 Like, if I can.

Speaker 4 00:52:01 Do it, if I can do it, you can do it. Yeah. If I can do it, I.

Amy Mutrux 00:52:04 Know you can do it. So I think that I just see people's potential more maybe.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:09 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:52:10 And I think that helps. The kids are kids. I'm like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:14 Yeah, we'll say more about that. The potential part of it. What you you see more in it. What do you mean?

Amy Mutrux 00:52:18 If people are open to sharing like things that they want to do or try or maybe ideas that they've had, you want to like coax that out a little bit more and you want them to play with it. And then instead of putting it back in their pocket and holding on to it, you want them to actually do it. You want them to try it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:34 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:52:34 And then maybe from there try something else. If they didn't really like that, try it. Bianca, who is our receptionist now getting motivated to get back into, like, weightlifting.

Amy Mutrux 00:52:45 What is it called when you go to the the gyms and you do all the things? What is.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:49 She doing?

Amy Mutrux 00:52:49 CrossFit. CrossFit? So she's been doing CrossFit and then got her kids into CrossFit. Yeah. And so. And she's just feeling so empowered here. So I don't do CrossFit. I don't ever want to do that. But she then got motivated just working around us to start doing it again. And I think that she used to do it maybe. But like her kids, like involving them. I thought it was beautiful because I do hours with the kids and then once they all, like, bowed out, I was like, I'm not stopping. I mean, I want to keep doing it, but it it was discouraging. And I'm like, okay, well, maybe they look at me and like it's not motivating to them or they don't really look up to me because they don't want to do it. And I'm still over here doing it. But guess what? They joined back in and they're doing it again.

Amy Mutrux 00:53:34 So it has nothing to do with me. Like their their journey doesn't. But if they want to do something and it makes them happy, then I am like, get it?

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:44 Well, like their schedules were so insane and like, you know, Emma got her black belt, Jackson got his black belt. so Emma, you know, Jackson stayed with it. Emma just she had to take a break, and she she and she joined. She's doing she's doing jiu jitsu with me. And so she she likes that too. But she's doing taekwondo. She's gonna be I mean, she's already a badass. She's going to be more fun than Hudson boom riding back. So,

Amy Mutrux 00:54:08 His friend wasn't in the class, so I'm not taking any credit there. Yeah, but he just wanted a friend.

Tyson Mutrux 00:54:15 Yeah, but he's he's back at it, so that's pretty good. But how do you how do you help coax that out of your out employees, though, where you're trying to get them to kind of open up and kind of achieve more.

Amy Mutrux 00:54:25 Okay. Being interested in their happiness, that's all it is. Carry, you know, like, what does she absolutely love? This is this her passion? Job? She is. She's good at it. I think that she. She loves the people. She loves us. But her passion is cooking. Well, they finally built that pizza oven. It was just like, I need pictures, girl. Show me the progress. We want to see every step of it, you know, get it there. And now her and her husband have these cool little pizza boxes that they made, personalized ones that they deliver pizzas to her neighbors. So it's like she's able to do something that makes her happy outside of work. And she has people that are cheering her on and want the best. Moving she wanted to move to, I probably shouldn't say, locations, but she moved halfway across the country and is living in her dream place with her pizza oven.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:24 Yeah.

Amy Mutrux 00:55:25 It's great, it's great. So I just say, like communicating it all boils down to communicating with our people, knowing what they want, what drives them, and encouraging them to keep going.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:38 Yeah, one of the coolest things that that I've seen, because since we've been running the firm together, is when she posted about getting the house where where they live now and like how she's like, she was so thankful for the firm, how she's able to do it because of the firm. And I was like, that's it's such a cool thing to be able to see that and kind of see people grow together. It's it's a it's a pretty awesome. It's got to make you feel.

Amy Mutrux 00:55:59 Like, find a new job. Like, you don't have to stress and worry about that because you've created a place where we can work remotely and we can work from anywhere, which means that we can hire the best people no matter where they're located. So I love that they appreciate that. And it's not like I live here. I know you're there, but if they want to move or relocate at any point, they can.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:25 Yeah. That's awesome. So I'm going to talk. I'm going to end with talking about success and I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:32 How do you think? What does success look like to you now versus, say like five years ago or ten years ago?

Amy Mutrux 00:56:40 That's a good question. I don't know if it's like changed for me. I think it's always been the same. I think success is a balance of achieving goals and remaining happy at the same time without failing a lot of people around you. Like there's a lot of there's a lot of things where I, I don't know, success is like a big thing. So the way that you get there has something to do with it. I know that there are probably successful people that are not happy, or they are hurting other people to get there. And I don't look at that as success. I look at it very differently, and I think doing good for people around you, good for you, your family and growing something might be slower. It might take a little bit longer, but I think that's true success.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:33 How will you know that you're successful in five years?

Amy Mutrux 00:57:36 Because I know I am now.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:37 Well, but if you're going to look at one thing in five years, how will you know that you're successful then?

Amy Mutrux 00:57:43 Oh, that's a good question. Not being stoned on the streets. Homeless? Yeah, I would say that, we're still married.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:53 Well, you don't have to worry about that.

Amy Mutrux 00:57:55 And then, I don't know. I don't know how I would read it. There's, like, so many things I. I would love to say that, you know, the people in our firm are still here. I would say that there are happy the people that have helped us build what we're building are still happy, whether they're with us or somewhere else.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:12 They're good. We you made it through it. That's it. That's all I got.

Amy Mutrux 00:58:15 I survived.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:16 Thanks. Thanks for doing.

Amy Mutrux 00:58:17 It.