Maximum Lawyer

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:12 Renee, you're an attorney, author, speaker, podcast host. You've built a brand that's it's so much bigger than just a law firm. And we'll get to the law firm, obviously. But for someone meeting you for the first time, how do you describe who you are and how you got here?

Renee Bauer 00:00:30 I'm an entrepreneur and that's what I am before I am a lawyer. Before I went to law school, I was an entrepreneur. I was always like, as is every entrepreneur who has the story of the business. They started at the end of their parents driveway with lemonade stands. Like I was always that person of like trying to come up with something. And I'm also a creative, which is really like a contradiction to what lawyers are. But that's the part of building is, which is so much fine. So. And it crosses over into building the business and being creative and the visionary about it. And writing the books were obviously there's a creative element.

Renee Bauer 00:01:08 And then speaking, it's that infusing that creativity. So that's like, that's what lights me up, is meshing those parts of myself that are a little bit unexpected and what people don't really typically see, and lawyers in the sense of doing all of the other things because I also get bored easily, like if I don't have something going or something in the fire, I'm like, all right, well, now what? Like it's stagnation. It scares me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:33 Yeah. You've built this really incredible brand, and it stands out in an itch where I think that most firms feel pretty a little stuffy, a little stiff. And so, like, what's the backstory? How is it that you decided to approach family law and branding and business so, so differently?

Renee Bauer 00:01:52 It has been a journey. So when I first started the firm, it was the typical law firm name, like everything else. And then I took a leap and decided to rename the firm with just my name. It was just myself at the time, but do all lowercase, and I remember sending it off to get printed and the the printer was like, whoa, whoa, like you're a law firm, you're using all lowercase.

Renee Bauer 00:02:13 And at that point, like that was you don't do that. That's not formal enough. And so I liked to sort of test like, what, what can I do that's going to make the business and what I do stand out. So there's that side of me that is always thinking about, like, what's the perception that if someone picks up the phone or Googles online, like, what are they seeing that's going to make them pick up the phone and call our firm rather than somebody else's firm? And it's like looking for that creative edge or looking to be a little bit different. And I think that's just a through line with everything I've ever done and who I am. It's it's like, how can I just be a little bit different? And at one point that was that actually held me back because it's like, you don't want to be too different, right? Because then people talk and it's like, if you're two different, are you going to be taken seriously? And once I sort of dropped that fear thought process behind like different is actually good.

Renee Bauer 00:03:06 It's a catalyst for growth. And it's actually the thing that's really the differentiator is when I leaned into it even more and now looking at it like, okay, how can what can I do that's even pushing the the envelope just a little bit more. And that came back to it's so funny because in this time in a day and age, everything's people are looking for automation and they're looking to make things easy and zoom and virtual and all that. And, and I thought, I'm like, what if we went back to the the roots of what people want and it's connection and so we can bring in all the technology and do all of the virtual things. But at the end of the day, especially in your family law practice, people want connection. So it's how can we make our clients feel important, feel like there are only client connect with them? What level of service can we offer that they will never get in any other law firm, because we're treating it as if they're walking into a spa, or they're walking into some high end boutique or hotel where there's this attention to detail that they would never expect from a law firm.

Renee Bauer 00:04:08 So we're constantly looking at like, how do we shake things up?

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:12 Yeah, it reminds me of the quote by Sally. Sally hogshead. different is better than better. It's more of her catchphrase at this point. I don't even call it a quote. It's really a catchphrase. And you all you have to do is you look at your. I've got your website over here. Happy even after family law is a pretty incredible name. it's it's really great because it hits the nail in the head. And I wonder what was the process for coming up with that name? Is it something that just hit you or did you did you hire a firm to go through that process? I'm just really curious how you came up with that name.

Renee Bauer 00:04:47 So I it first started as a podcast and we were Bower Law Group that was like, you know, typical law firm name, and I knew I wanted to start a podcast. So it was like, what was the name of a good podcast? I worked with a company called Brand Builders back in 2020 that helped entrepreneurs and business owners really work on their personal brand, and that crossed over into how what it did to the business.

Renee Bauer 00:05:11 So I was working with a brand strategist specifically for the podcast and building a platform and trying to elevate a speaking career and starting to pitch a book. So the thought was never to take happy, even after and have it be part of the brick and mortar business. So I launched, so working with her, we came up with the name together by trying to figure out what is it that we're what people want, why are they coming to me? And it's like the title test. It's like, you want to you want to give say it's like a book title, too. It's like people are drawn to the thing that they actually want. And I'm like, well, they want to be happy. And if they're coming to a divorce attorney, they're not. And they thought they were getting their are happy ever after. And it turns out it doesn't look like that anymore. And it's reinvented. It was just a session of brainstorming and spitting out different ideas and different names. And then we just hit it with happy even after.

Renee Bauer 00:06:02 And that was the podcast, and probably about six months after I launched the podcast, I'm like, why am I not calling the firm this? Like, it seemed like it was so obvious to me. And then I thought, oh my God, I have to rename the firm the letterhead, the signage, the all the things and the expense with it. And I was just like, I just felt it in my gut. I'm like, I just have to like, go in and do this and put the investment into that rebrand. And it's so funny because when I launched with it, I had two schools of people. I had some old time lawyers who were like, that's the stupidest name ever, you know, making fun of it. And then I have, but we have clients who call and say, I call because of the name of your firm. And so you still have those people are like, what kind of name is that? That's a little silly. and I just kind of sit back and laugh because I'm like, you're still, you know, you have a solo of one and like, you can't, you don't get to criticize me unless you're like, actually in in that arena, there's a quote about that arena doing the work and trying to build and grow and scale, because for me, it wasn't just a practice.

Renee Bauer 00:07:10 This is a business. And how are we going to turn this thing into a business that's more than just me as a solo.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:17 How difficult was it of a decision to go instead of, say, saying happily, even after to happy even after.

Renee Bauer 00:07:24 That one was pretty easy because everyone gets the like the you live happily ever after. Like that's pretty typical. And I was thinking it thinking of it from a trademark perspective too, and did a little bit of research and no one had used that term at that point. Like, I did a deep dive on Google and there wasn't anything out there. Now we've had some infringements on it. So I was really quick to like, okay, we can trademark happy even after we got the trademark, we can't get the trademark for Happily Ever After so similar. But I mean, it was that small distinction that said that that's the brand because it's just just everyone recognizes that other term. But this is just a little bit different enough for us to be able to leverage that and stand out.

Renee Bauer 00:08:07 Is that independent, trademarked tagline?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:10 I'd be really curious to hear some of the things, the branding lessons that you learned from the company that you worked with, that maybe some other law firms could benefit from.

Renee Bauer 00:08:18 You know, so one of the biggest things was before I started that journey, I operated from a place of, you show up as a professional, you keep the act as what one would expect as a lawyer to act and dress the part and speak the speak and all of that. And what that organization allowed me to do was break down some of that a little bit and become a little bit vulnerable as we dug into like the why? Like, who am I talking to? Why am I doing the work? Why is it important to me? And as we start to do that work, I'm twice divorced. You know, that was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. The shame, the guilt. Like there was so much emotional attachment to that that I kept buried because I thought it was unprofessional to talk about it.

Renee Bauer 00:09:07 So the process of building this brand was that if I want to build a brand that people connect with, I actually have to share my story. I have to talk about the thing that's really, really hard for me to talk about in public. And because that's what people connect with. And so as I started putting power to those words and speaking them, I started to get really comfortable talking about, here's the thing, that where I was my most broken self because the people who come through my door as as divorce clients are, usually that's where they are in their life. And so using that personal story to connect with people, which I thought would actually reflect as being unprofessional was the was the differentiator between someone hiring or not, or calling or not. Because if people all the time reach out and said, I see what you post on online. Your story is inspirational. I listened to this podcast where you talked openly about how hard of a time that was, and I thought you had it all together.

Renee Bauer 00:10:04 And I'm like, guess what? I don't, I don't, I'm figuring it out. And you know what? You can too. You can figure it out. Even if you didn't expect that plot twist of a divorce. So it's really using that emotional part of my story to promote and build the business, which I've always kept them so separate for so many years.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:23 How do you like what's the dividing line? Where do you draw the line when it comes to this? Things okay to share this things not okay to share.

Renee Bauer 00:10:31 I mean, it's a good question on social, right? Because like, everything feels like an open book. Like, listen, you see you see what I want you to see. Like, that's the, that's that's the side of it. So anyone who thinks that someone's totally opening up their full story to everyone, like there's things that that are sacred. And it's funny because when I started this journey, my, my now husband, sat down and we had a conversation because he was like, I'm really uncomfortable with this.

Renee Bauer 00:10:57 Like, I'm really private. I'm uncomfortable with you sharing and being so open. And we had to work through that and talk about like, okay, what's okay to share? What's not okay to share? And one hard rule I will never, ever disparage or talk about anyone or talk about exes in any way or anything like that, because none of this story is actually about them. It's always about the growth that happens after that. but my husband, who was so uncomfortable now was just like, he's just totally accepted and adopted and thinks it's a hoot. But so much of that still is like, I'm going to talk about my divorces. I'm going to talk about the heart. I'm going to talk about the pain and the the the growth from it and the pivot, and all of that. I'm not going to talk about everything, you know. So there's still boundaries that I have. and I think that, anyone who puts themselves out there in the podcast world or social media, like, I think it's important to maintain that, too.

Renee Bauer 00:12:00 because we do see when people don't, what happens. And then, I mean, we see that with, with even, some, some influencers, right, who have like, they put everything out and then something happens in their life and people feel like they've been slighted because they weren't told part of their story or relationship fell apart and they weren't part of that. And then and then they're like, blackballed from from that world. So it's, you know, it's be vulnerable in a really authentic way. But I don't think you have to overshare either.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:29 When you were working with this marketing company or the branding company, do they help you develop which stories that would be maybe have the most impact?

Renee Bauer 00:12:38 Now that was yeah. So it was an exercise of so one of the things that they do is when your they help you craft a keynote and as part of that process is to write down stories that have were impactful to you that might fit into a keynote and don't judge them. Just put it all down.

Renee Bauer 00:12:57 Some of them might be relevant, some might be good, some might be funny, some might be painful. And then as you start to craft the outline of what your keynote, you go to this like library of stories and you can pick which ones are going to be applicable. And as I was working on my keynote, I knew I had the framework. I didn't know what story I was going to tell, and actually the one that I pulled out to tell was the one that I never thought in a million years I would ever speak on stage. And the first time I ever did, I'm like, I can't believe I'm going up there to do this. And every time before I speak, I say the same thing. I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to share this, this story and maybe I should change it. And my husband always says, you cannot change the story. You have to tell it just the way it is. And I never regret it because sometimes I'm like, it might not be appropriate for the corporate audience or whatever, but it's like that fit.

Renee Bauer 00:13:48 So I there were my true stories. I curated a library of them. And then when I was writing my book, I was able to go back into there and decide which other stories would fit into into that. So they really didn't help, pull out the stories. They just encouraged you to use your own personal stories in order to, really make that look, that keynote in and connect with people on a really authentic way, because you could just go in there and teach a framework and everyone's going to go like, yawn, like, okay, I'm not going to remember a damn thing from that. But when you start saying something to somebody and you see them crying, or you see like, then you know, you're making a connection. And that's the thing that people remember is how you made them feel.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:36 All right. You know what my question is going to be probably what was the story?

Renee Bauer 00:14:40 I will not do it on air. No. So I use. I mean, this was it was extremely painful.

Renee Bauer 00:14:47 I'll give you the small the highlight version, extremely painful moment where I was in my second marriage. I was in Paris, in the most beautiful city and in the world, and my ex approached me after I asked him for some money to light a candle because he was holding all of the money, and he turned around and in a very quiet, quiet place. If you've ever been to Notre Dame, you're walking around. Everyone's whispering. He calls me a name that you don't that begins with a C. I won't use it for purposes, so you don't have to use your explicit right. So in in my talk I always I just flat out share that version of it. And I don't hold back from what that is. And every time I do it you hear the like the, the unified gasp from the audience as I kind of set the story up. But it it happened and it was it's meant to have an impact because the, the, the background of that is on its face. My life was perfect.

Renee Bauer 00:15:46 I had everything the successful career of the business, the, you know, everything looked like it was really, really good. But behind closed doors it was I was broken and I was slowly being torn down day by day by day. And that was the moment for me that I knew I had to make a major decision. I could, no matter how painful it was, no matter how much shame I had, I had to make that decision because I would not recognize myself a year from now if I stayed in that and that, you know, people asked, you have a moment? Well, that was the moment for me. So that's that's the story. So I've said that I've shared that story in front of my parents who never knew that that happened. And, you know, and I've shared it in front of corporations and like and they don't most people don't expect that from what is supposed to be a motivational speaker, but it's the you know, it's I after I share that, I have people come back and say, you reclaimed that word or you share that and you know, it triggered something in them and made them all made them have an emotional reaction.

Renee Bauer 00:16:51 So it's like a story that once I had so much shame about and I never wanted to tell anyone because it was like, how did I get here? And I use it to actually bring people in and connect with them in an audience.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:04 Yeah, I love that. I love how you you've kind of owned that, that story. That's really good. So thanks for sharing.

Renee Bauer 00:17:10 I of.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:11 Course not to put you on the spot too much, but.

Renee Bauer 00:17:13 Yeah, you did. Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:15 You've, there's this quote. So, Becca's has pulled some quotes for me, and I find this one really interesting. And you say I love failing because it's an opportunity for growth. And that's not something you hear from from the vast majority of people. That's definitely not something you hear from a lot of successful attorneys or business owners, because they kind of want to put that best foot forward. So I wonder where where did that mindset come from for you?

Renee Bauer 00:17:42 I think I think I've failed enough and have done made enough mistakes.

Renee Bauer 00:17:47 And when you when you get used to having the nose or the rejections or having something not work, it becomes easier to pick up and move on from that. My book is one of those examples because I'm a writer to my core, and I wanted to traditionally publish my book. And if anyone has ever done that, you have to get a literary agent before they go and pitch it to publishers. And I had 113 rejections from literary agents before I got the one. Yes. And so I got so used to the know that it just became another. It was like, all right, another no, delete, delete, delete. And like by the time you get to 75, it doesn't even faze you anymore. But it was like I knew to my core that this was the thing that I wanted, and I was not going to let go of that. Going through those divorces was like, okay, There's failure. Failure in those relationships. But I really believe, despite being a divorce lawyer, I believed that the relationship that I wanted existed out there, and I just knew that I wasn't going to settle for something less than.

Renee Bauer 00:18:51 And so that's it was like, let me pick myself up, dust myself off and keep going. Because what other choice do you have? You give up. You give in. You say you be a victim. You become bitter. You become resentful. Like, what choice do you have? If something doesn't work, then to keep going. And I do think that sometimes the hardest things that you ever go through are actually the best things. In order to reinvent yourself and to redirect you to something way better than you could ever imagine.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:22 Yeah. That's interesting. I'm also curious why why you went through the traditional publishing route.

Renee Bauer 00:19:28 Yeah. So I and I know because that was it's usually when someone writes a non-fiction book or personal development is to build their business and for me it was the complete opposite. The book hadn't actually nothing to do with the business. I've been a writer since I was a little kid. It's the thing that I love more than anything else in the world, is to put to start tapping on a laptop and start creating stories.

Renee Bauer 00:19:52 And I knew that I wanted to publish a book, but I wanted to do it the way where there's a publisher and you get the book deal. And for me, there was no other way. There was no other option except to go down that path. And when I got my agent, it was actually for a fiction book, a murder mystery. And I then went back to her and pitched a nonfiction book that I woke up one day and I had this idea, and she's like, all right, let's give it a try. And that's the book that we sold. So then I had to go back and write that. And that book actually is so not like your typical, like, business book that I'm using to promote something. It's almost part memoir. It's part like it's definitely personal development, but there's there's more to it. There's more like it's it's I mean, I really like they it was Ernest Hemingway says like, there's nothing to writing. You sit down at the typewriter and bleed, like, that's what I did all over that book.

Renee Bauer 00:20:47 And it was just like. So it was such like a healing tool for me as well. So it was it was like that. That was it wasn't a question. It was just this is the way I'm doing it. And so for the second book, the next book after that, I just finished another fiction book that we're trying to get published. I have another proposal out for another nonfiction, and people have said to me, why don't you just publish it yourself? And I'm like, is that that my writing journey is a different journey than my business journey for the law firm. And I want to see, like, I want to see what I can achieve on that traditional path. I'm not using it as a tool to grow the business. Totally separate lanes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:24 Do you view the writing in the same way? And I know that it's different from the business, but do you, do you view it almost like as a profession or as a business itself. That's like separate from the other business.

Renee Bauer 00:21:35 Yes, because I have it set up as a separate business and I feed the what? I didn't know what would come from the book were speaking opportunities, and that was the result of that non-fiction book. So I did end up setting up a separate business. And the speaking fees go through that and anything. And so when you put out a nonfiction book and you're speaking, you can then have the organizations buy 2 or 300 books as part of your speaking fee. And so there's income coming in from that that is separate. So I do keep those two things separate. And the intent is that as I continue to build my business, that could be a sustainable business all on its own at some point.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:17 You know, since we've since we've had Max, Lorcan and everything we've had, you know, and several other events where we've had speakers, that is one of the things where sometimes they'll ask us to buy the books and I, I wonder and I actually like the idea because it's, it gives all the all the guests or the attendees a book and everything.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:34 But is there another? I mean, other than getting your book out there and selling more books? Is there some other incentive or benefit of doing it that way, as opposed to you just getting the money?

Renee Bauer 00:22:42 So for me, my book journey is a long term, a long game, because getting that first book deal, I mean, the royalties were the advance was so small that but it wasn't about that. It was about in order to get that next level. So ideally, in my perfect world, like I make the New York Times bestseller list, right? Then the next book becomes really easy to pitch, and they give you that much bigger advance because you've already sold X amount. And when you self-publish, you can't hit those lists. You can kind of buy your way onto some of the other lists, but like the big ones, you're never going to get on. So I was using my nonfiction XI, who wins as a launch pad for the next one and then the next one after that.

Renee Bauer 00:23:28 And so like I look at that is it's not even about that book. It's about making money on that book. It's it's both the, the springboard for us to sell the other one. So with the one that we're pitching right now, the goal is to get a big publisher to pick it up. And we can go back and say, hey, this book that was published in 2023 is this publishing company's best selling book right now. And so the next publisher could then say, well, look at look at what happened when she published under a smaller imprint. And what if now we put some marketing dollars behind this? Now what can happen, you know, if we push this. And so that's really the goal is, is not just to sell the books like I'm looking at that as a whole side again, the entrepreneur. It's the whole side thing as my creative side is another whole separate business and that's part of it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:20 I do find it interesting that when it comes to your speaking and your book and the firm, it really centers around storytelling.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:27 And I'm curious, how did you how did you learn that skill?

Renee Bauer 00:24:31 I think at all. I definitely not law school. I mean, I I'll never forget being in law school and get and being in the writing class and getting a C in that class because they told me that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:43 That probably had to make you mad. That was probably probably.

Renee Bauer 00:24:46 Yeah, right. They told me that I wasn't writing to the form that they taught, and I was like, but it's so boring. You know, it was like they they were like, stripping the creativity from you by by the format that you were supposed to write in. But I've been like, I've been my my mother actually was packing up boxes and gave me stuff that I wrote and poems and all that from when I was a little kid. And so I've always been a storyteller, like, I've always been like living inside my head as to like, what can I imagine? Like, I'm the person who sits there at the airport and, like, makes up stories as people walk by and like, I'm thinking like, why are they here? And how are they interacting? Like, it's just it's it's just the, the, the way my brain works.

Renee Bauer 00:25:29 And so it was very natural to use stories regardless of on stage or in books or with clients or with the business and even storytelling, the, the, the vision of the business. I mean, it just became very, very natural. And I think my instinct early on was to separate the two because it was like, the business is the business and you have to keep it all business like. And I was missing something in the minute I intersected and started connecting them was was when really everything took off.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:00 How do you keep it consistent when it comes from a storytelling and a branding standpoint between all aspects of of your overall brand? I'm curious because you got your speaking part, the book part, and then you've got you came on here to talk, you know, you've got the firm. And I wonder, how are you able to keep all of the branding so consistent?

Renee Bauer 00:26:20 It's all related. They're not separate. At one point, like I had mentioned, the podcast was a different name as the business and they were very separate.

Renee Bauer 00:26:29 And so the branding was different. And and then when I realized I can merge them all together, it's all the same message. It's go after whatever it is you want. Like push through the fear. Don't be afraid of getting rejected. I mean, that works in our personal lives, our professional lives, our business lives like that. And a lot of my audience are women. And who are whether it's corporate or whether they're women empowerment event, they have similar struggles, whether it might be in the relationship or the the asking for the raise or starting their own business. Like it's fear. It's uncertainty. Like it's the it's not about the divorce, it's about the underlying things underneath that and the emotion. And that's just human experience. And I think that when you just start talking about that, you talk about people's fear. It's so universal and anxiety and uncertainty like I don't have to worry about one message is contradicting the other message. They're all completely aligned. Even if I'm talking about business one day and divorce the next.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:30 Yeah, it makes me wonder. So family law is very litigation heavy. And how do you make sure that your brand is consistent from, like, everything that we're seeing, right. Like outside public. Like you got the speaking part of it, the marketing, all that when you step into a courtroom, is that part of the brand or is that something different?

Renee Bauer 00:27:50 It depends. Because if we get to there's a big part of my practice that's mediation and helping people to let go of the small stuff like, let's get you divorced and not fight over the lamp. You know, like that's sort of the the consistency of moving on and moving forward and not looking back. But there are times as lawyers you have to litigate and you know, that that skill set and what I have to do there is it's still on brand because it's still fighting and speaking up and speaking out for what the client is, their position and what they think is right and what they think they're entitled to. I'm not one who over litigate or takes things to trial just because it's really the last.

Renee Bauer 00:28:35 The last step, the last, you know, the end of the road. And usually there's a valid reason for it. And because somebody is being mistreated or funds are being hidden and not fully disclosed, and we've uncovered assets and there's they need a voice. And where we end up in the courtroom because of that. So I think it's still very much on brand about just speaking up and out and being true and advocating for yourself, your life, your happiness, your success and all of that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:07 I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about speaking and specifically any if people want to get into speaking, how how would you recommend that they they dip their toe in it to to the point where they could they could start to get their foot in the door and then eventually start getting on bigger stages.

Renee Bauer 00:29:24 Say yes to everything. So I start with the chambers. Like your local chambers are the easiest way to start standing up in front of a group of people and start sharing your message.

Renee Bauer 00:29:35 And I joined all of the local chambers and then offered like, hey, do you want to put on a seminar about this? Our local bar association. Hey, do you want? And I just started doing that and I was told you should be doing hundreds of freebies before you then start asking for fees. Like you have to really practice craft your message. It's like every speaking engagement is an opportunity to refine and get better at it and just start pursuing connecting with people. Like so much of the speaking world is relationships, and it's having these networking relationships and coffees and you never know what comes from that. And then I did I've done a lot a lot of free speaking, and sometimes I'll just trade speaking for books and they'll get a sponsor to buy books and I'll say, yes, I will happily show up because I'm thinking to myself, while I get to use the credibility to say I spoke at such and such a conference and there were 300 people in the room. And then I get the the clips from it, your speaking assets, which people want to see that before they put you on stage and you can use it for the next one.

Renee Bauer 00:30:45 But there's always somebody in the room who will approach you after and say, hey, I have something else, will you come speak? And that's usually I don't do a ton or if any, quite frankly, marketing or any anything like formal pursuit of speaking opportunities. I'm not part of a speakers bureau or anything. I just say yes to every opportunity, which always leads to the next and the next in the next. So you just start doing it. You want to get some really good footage, for sure. Speaking. And that's why when you say yes to all of them, sometimes you can just say, I'll speak for free if you just give me the video footage of it, and then you take those clips and you turn it into a speaker reel. And I think that's probably once you have a few of them, one of the most important things, because people want a speaker reel to know that if you're going on their stage, you're going to be compelling.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:33 And I don't know if you have an answer to this, but I'm curious, do you think that speaking is good to lead to more speaking, or do you think it is speaking is good to drive business for the firm?

Renee Bauer 00:31:47 So I think it's speaking leads to more speaking.

Renee Bauer 00:31:50 I think the secondary benefit is it drives business to the firm. We always pick up clients from the speaking, but I don't do the speaking to drive business. I do the speaking because I love it and it's that other creative lane, and it brings me joy and fulfillment. And I love the connection that happens in those rooms. So there's always that benefit where we absolutely get people in clients who call up soon after that. But you have to love it like you have to want to be a speaker. Love it. Or willing to work on the craft of it. Are willing to mess up or willing to spend a ton of time writing your your keynote. And not just like you can't just get up there. Some of the best speakers that you see have spent hundreds of hours on that same keynote. Refining it. Going to, you know, spending the time watching other speakers like there's so much time in it. So if you don't love it, I think that's going to come across on stage.

Renee Bauer 00:32:49 There's tons of ways to build your business. If that's not the one that feels good to you, then don't do that. Like, I feel that the same way about books too. Like, it makes me crazy when people just put out just books just because. And they think like, if you don't love writing and that process, there's lots of other ways that you can build your business. You have to do something that brings you joy.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:10 Yeah, I think it's a I think it's a really good point. The speaking part of it, I kind of view it almost like kind of like a comedian has a standup bit, right? Like, so they've got like their hour that they end up talking about. We're like the big time ones. Like they've got an hour of stage time and they've got to keep developing that. But once they've kind of exhausted that, they've got to create a new one. Is it similar to that with when it comes to speaking?

Renee Bauer 00:33:32 Yeah. So I it's funny because a lot of speakers will will rinse and repeat the same thing over and over and over again and then and they'll use that for years.

Renee Bauer 00:33:42 Like you can get a ton of leverage out of that same talk. You're not supposed to be actually coming up with new a new talk after every gig. You're supposed to be sticking to that same one and then refining that so that you're speaking to the people who are sitting in that audience, and you can pull in pieces of if you're talking to the insurance industry, you're going to pull in things that they'll that they'll connect with about that. But the messaging should be the same and that overall piece of it, and I so I have one keynote I've only done I'll do like trainings and change things up there. But in terms of like the keynote, I have one that I keep refining. It's not ready. It is so far from perfect, like it's not ready for me to push it aside and do another one. At some point there'll be another one, but it's not. It's like, I feel like there's just so much more opportunity still within that one, and I know it works, and I know that it creates a feeling in people, in the audience, because I hear from them after I see them.

Renee Bauer 00:34:40 And so why would I change that up just because I'm I'm bored with it. Right? Like, because there's always that risk. I'm like, I'm kind of sick of this one. Let me do something else. But if for professional speakers and I have some friends who are, yeah, they're going to change theirs up because they're hoping to get the call up for another event. And someone says, I want you back, but you need you need new material. And I think that's probably the difference between that professional speaker that that that's their bread and butter, and that's all they do versus someone like me, that I do that as part of all the other stuff that I do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:14 Yeah. For people that are sitting down, they're going to write the first draft right of their presentation or speech or however you want to call it. What is some advice you can give to them so they can sort of skip a few steps, maybe to get that best first draft. What's some advice you have?

Renee Bauer 00:35:30 You have to think about what you want to teach there.

Renee Bauer 00:35:34 So in any good keynote you can, the same keynote can be 20 minutes to a half hour to 50 minutes to more than that. And you're just adding you're layering in other stories in other pieces to it. But the, the main part of that is what are you teaching and how are you going to give them something to remember on the other side? So there's always a framework. If you look at any book that does really well, there's a framework built into that, so you can kind of build it backwards. It's what is the thing that you want to leave that you want to leave people with and what is that framework look like? And now you can break that framework apart depending on how long your speech is. And that will tell you how many stories to drop in there. So the framework that I use has four parts to it. If I have a half hour or 20 minutes to give, I'm giving one story and we're doing and that's it. If I have an hour to give, I'm going to break apart each section of that framework and drop stories into each section.

Renee Bauer 00:36:36 So it's like it's modular. And so that's where you're like constantly playing like Tetris with with with plug and play with it. So I'd start with that first because the story part's easy. Start with what is it that you want to teach somebody to be a thought leader, because you have to come out with something new and not just get up there and just tell stories. It has to tie into something that has a bigger overarching meaning and and watch other really good keynote speakers on how they do it. And every single one of them does that. They use a story to anchor in the framework that they teach, and on the back end, they give you an action item that you're asking the audience to do. So it's story framework action. And if you think about it from that perspective, then it gives you a structure to start working with.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:26 That's excellent. I really like that. So if there is that with that, you know, kind of think of that same person in mind that's developing that, that speech.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:34 And if they're trying to develop their brand and really try to figure out, I guess, their authentic story, what's what's your advice to them to try to figure that out?

Renee Bauer 00:37:45 So dig down. So if you think about most most people who are building their brand or are have something to teach, want to talk about the the person they used to be and how they got out of that. And so usually that has something to do with a pain point or a lesson. So it's think about who you are. And for me it was like who was I when I was my most broken self. That's the person I want to speak to, because I know there's so many other people out that who are in that phase of their life right now. And it's what lesson could I have benefited from if someone was there in front of me saying, hey, this is what you need, or this is how I can help you, or this is what you just need to hear right now. And so I would say, think about who you were at that lowest point, because they say that our purpose is our pain.

Renee Bauer 00:38:37 They say that we we teach right. That like we've heard that over and over again, but we're we're talking to the person who we used to be. And if you think about it from that perspective, that's going to give you the material. So for me, so much of my story had to do with that really, really bad toxic relationship. And so much stemmed from that. So of course, when I started speaking, I had to go to that point. I had to like start there because it was a complete contradiction of who people think I am or thought I was like. Of course, that was the point that I had to start and kind of strip away all of that perception and it's like, okay, this is this is who I used to be. And I know clients come to me every single day and they're exactly at that same point. So what is it that I can teach them to help them move past that?

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:25 I love that. Before I get to my last question or two, if people want to reach out to you and either, you know, get in touch with you by your book, ask you to come speak, just, you know, ask you questions.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:37 what's the best way of getting Ahold of you?

Renee Bauer 00:39:39 Yeah, they can go to family lawyer sitcom and they can connect with me there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:45 I love it, very good stuff. So I want to ask you a little bit about a quote, another quote. And you said, don't tell me something should be done a certain way. Challenge accepted. So so tell me, tell me about that. I'm very curious about the.

Renee Bauer 00:40:00 Oh, that that one. Oh my God, that's my favorite. I love when someone tells me something can't be done or they disagree with something because it hasn't been done before. That's how I think of anything. That's anytime we do something in the firm that's marketing, that's different. That's and someone says, do we really want to do that? And I'm like, okay, let me roll up my sleeves here and let me tell you all the reasons why we do. And so I love when something feels so. I mean, this is like just maybe me personally, but I love when something feels so hard that I want to just see what I'm made of.

Renee Bauer 00:40:35 I'm like, can I do this? And maybe I can't. And maybe that's the lesson. That's fine. But I also want to know, like, okay, let me see. Like let let me see what, what I'm capable of. And a good example of this is a few years back my son had started lifting weights and he's like, let's do a powerlifting meet. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, I don't want to do a powerlifting meet. But I'm like, when your teenager asked you to do something and you're going to get more time with them. I'm like, okay, man, I'm in, let's do this. And that was the mentality. I'm like, let's, let's see what. Let's see what I'm made of. And I never expected that journey to land where it was. And I ended up breaking state records for my age and and all of that. And and then that was the end of it. And it was so funny because I did it. I got the awards and all that.

Renee Bauer 00:41:18 And then people were like, are you doing another one? I'm like, no, I'm like, I just wanted to see if I could. It doesn't mean I want to continue doing it. And so sometimes the journey is really, really fun and it doesn't mean you have to continue or be perfect at it or not give it up on the other side. And like, that's that was actually the whole reason why I started speaking to because quite frankly, it terrified me. And the thought of going on stage and speaking in front of people, like, gave me anxiety. And so I'm like, all right, I want to see if I can do it because it is like I've done it a few times in small groups. I'm like, I want to see if I can go on a bigger stage and see what happens. And I did it a couple of times and I'm like, I didn't die. I'm like, okay, maybe I want to try this again. And each time it's like, I get so nervous and I still do.

Renee Bauer 00:42:03 And I thought that I would do it and be done. And then I realized, like, that's something that I did and I want to continue to do. So sometimes it's just the challenge of, let's see, let's see what happens.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:14 What advice do you have for people that maybe are a little hesitant, like, so you, you, you were worried about doing the weights. And so I which I completely understand, but you got a massive benefit out of actually doing it. And I and the speaking you were afraid of, but you've gotten a massive benefit. So it's like all these unexpected outcomes because you sort of stepped outside of your comfort zone. So what is your advice to attorneys that are in that same boat where they're uncomfortable stepping outside of that comfort zone to help encourage them do that?

Renee Bauer 00:42:46 So the the question I would kick back to them is, what are you afraid of failing. Okay, so that's not a good enough in my book. That's not a good enough excuse to not do it.

Renee Bauer 00:42:56 And what if it actually works out? And isn't that enough of a reason to go for it? because I think for lawyers, for entrepreneurs, business owners like you were going to fail. Like, there's no doubt it's going to happen. You're going to fall on your face. You're going to make mistakes like it's going to happen. But you it's it's that the more you do things like that, at some point something's going to work, right? There has to be success somewhere. And so but if you never do the things, you're never going to get that one time it did work. So what are you afraid of? Why hold back? Like. I mean, I've always say that at the end of my life, I don't want to look back and say, wow, I wish I did all of these other things that I said. One day I'll do it. Like I want to look back and be like, all right, I tried all of these things that I wanted to try some work, some didn't, but at least I gave it a go.

Renee Bauer 00:43:49 And knowing that I lived a fulfilled life and didn't hold back. I mean, we only have one to live, right? So we might as well might as well go for it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:01 I can't think of a better way of ending the episode, so thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. I can tell you, you definitely love what you do and I think it's fantastic. When's the next time you you're going to speak if, if, if you have something on the counter. Because that way people can come watch you.

Renee Bauer 00:44:15 Oh. So the next thing I have isn't until March, the Business Women's Forum in Connecticut. They've been putting on this event for 40 something years, and our firm is actually sponsoring the event, and I'm the keynote speaker there, and they get about 600 people in the room. So that will be, to date, the biggest event that I speak at. So that one's a little bit a little bit ways out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:39 But that's awesome. Well congrats on that. That's really cool.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:42 Congrats on all your success. And if there's anything we can do to help support you, just let me know.

Renee Bauer 00:44:46 Of course. Thanks for having me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:48 Thanks, Renee I appreciate it.