Maximum Lawyer

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:00 Get ready because here's your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:12 Good morning. Welcome back to the Guild live show. I've got a really I've got an exciting one because we're going to be talking about what some of the things I learned out in New York City. We had the mastermind in New York City. Just a wonderful time, wonderful group. And so I wanted to go through some of the things that I learned from that without, you know, revealing any confidences. It was a really interesting one, because what was usually what you get is a lot of the same topics. And I think of any of the masterminds I've ever been in, any of them. This one, I think, maybe had the most variety of topics. It was really interesting, really interesting group of attorneys. It was a good mix of attorneys, small firms, big firms, like really everything in between different practice areas. And so it just made for a really interesting, really interesting mastermind and a really interesting city as well. If you've never been to New York City, it was my first, first time there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:21 Definitely a very interesting, city. Interesting experience for for sure. For me, I enjoyed my time there. It's really good. Had a wonderful dinner beforehand with Brian McMahon and Mark Carlin. it was just an awesome time. Really awesome experience. Got to see Statue of Liberty for the first time. That was awesome. It was really cool. So I've got these metal glasses, and I got a recording of me walking in front of the Statue of Liberty and just hearing all the different languages, people talking. It was really interesting. And if there's any sign that the US is still like that beacon of light. For other countries, it was that it was really, really cool. that part was cool. got I went out and saw with Amy. We went into the 911 memorial. Man, that was tough to go through. That was really, really powerful, man. If you can make it through that thing without tearing up. Good on you. Because that's, That was a tough one.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:27 That was a really tough one to go through. So I highly recommend that you do that. That was a it was a really, really well done. They did a great job with that. And but the city I mean it's just interesting I was kind of joking with Brian Whitman, like, you could eat out every single night and not go to a new restaurant, ever. Like, there's just so many different places that you can go to, really incredible. But let's get into some of my notes. Was just really interesting. Some of the topics. The first one I'm going to talk about, I'm not going to talk about every single thing that we talked about is just because there are so many different things. Sometimes a topic is presented, but the issue is something else, right? And we ultimately get to something else. And that's what's kind of interesting. But there was one thing, I guess I'll just call it an identity crisis. That was this is something that many people kind of responded to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:24 Well, I'm I'm going to call that's not the topic the way it was presented, but I'm going to call it sort of an identity crisis. And it's something that I sort of gone through a couple of years ago, and someone else is sort of going through it now. And it was interesting because I'll give you from my because I don't want to, you know, I don't reveal any confidences, but I'll give it to you from my perspective, whenever I went through this and it was this time where delegation, we delegated pretty much everything that we could, and a really big decision had been made without any need for me or intervention for me at all. And I remember coming to the office hearing that the decision had been made and then, like thinking, well, like like, what the hell am I doing here? Like what? Like, what do you need me here for? Kind of a thing. And even though I think the reaction probably should have been like, thank freaking goodness, you know, someone else is making these decisions.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:23 I don't have to anymore. But it was this thing where, like, what am I supposed to be doing? And it was a really bad it was it was kind of a tough moment. And I and I think that a lot of people get to that point once they have grown to their firm, to a certain level where you're like, well, like, what am I supposed to be doing here? And but it it's a, it's a, it's a sign for you to kind of dial things in. All right. Now I can focus on the truly valuable things that I need to be doing. And and that's what I mean, ultimately, that's what I did. But it was a it was an interesting moment, and I was. I was pleasantly surprised because I had not had I had not had a conversation with anyone about it, except for actually earlier that day during. We have a mini mine for the mastermind level people, and I was talking to Jeremy Danielson. We had a mini mine earlier that day, and I had actually brought the conversation up to him, and it was just by chance it had come up during the mastermind too.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:21 And so it was good to be able to talk about it, because I had not had that conversation with anybody. And because you'll get to that point and it's it's a healthy point in the firm. I think it's a really good sign that the firm is in is in a is in good shape. So if you experience that, know that it's normal. No. And it really was interesting. The the firm owners that have done that have gone through it that there's, there were several there that have gone through it. And so it's good I think it's a good sign. It's a sign that you are on the right track. You just need to dial things in a little bit more. There was another one. And again I've got to talk. Very vague. Another thing that came up was dealing with toxic staff. And I don't want to go. I don't think it's. I don't think it's wise to to jump too quickly and say, oh, staff is or an employee is toxic or the staff is toxic.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:18 But there were some times where it came up about employees and I had done an episode. I think it's been it's been probably six months or so about toxic employees and about the signs of toxic employees, and we didn't really get into that during the mastermind. But what had come up was kind of dealing like, how do how do you basically handle a team that is that may have turned against you, you know? And that is a that's a really, really tough situation to be in. If you if you think that your team has turned against you and I mean, ultimately what you want to do is you want to try to kind of really get to the root of it. There were some really good suggestions about, you know, actually having, you know, you know, comes down to communication and having those really deep conversations with your team about what's going on. And that is I think that's really wise. Identifying the source is something that you definitely want to do too, though, because, I can kind of go through some of the signs.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:22 But to me, when I start hearing people talk about how an employee, they're always talking about how they're overworked, they talk about how much work they do. But at the same time, you have repeatedly taken work away from them. And because you're you're trying to lower their workload. So you they're you actually can say they're doing less work than they were before because you've taken things off their plate. but they're they're still complaining about how much work they're doing. They're probably complaining. Most likely, if you know about it, they're going to be complaining to other employees. When I start to hear things like that. That is it's a really it's a red flag for me. And in that situation, you want to start looking, digging a little bit deeper and actually seeing are they doing all the work? Because a lot of times what you'll find is they're not actually working very hard. They're actually doing less than the other employees. But you think because they've been talking about how much work they've been doing in your head, you think that, and rightfully so, you should be able to trust your employees.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:29 But you're thinking, oh my gosh, they're doing so much work. They're working really, really hard. They're one of my best employees. If my if not my best employee. But when you actually go to look, I've seen and heard about other stories too, where they're not actually doing much work, they're doing they're less productive than other team members. They're hurting the other team members because they're complaining all the time. They're bringing down the morale. And even worse, they might be hiding work where they they say they're doing work, but they're not. So be there. And there's other signs too. I go into it in that episode, but it's a really red flag that kind of starts it all off is when it's the combination of two things. It's not just an employee saying that they're overworked, because I think that's something you need to be concerned about, but overworked. Plus, you've consistently been taking things off their plate for a while and they're still complaining about being overworked. Those two things combined because they don't make a whole lot of sense.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:24 If you've been taking things off their plate and they're still overworked and you've been doing it for a while, that doesn't make sense because you've been giving them less work. Right. You've you've had you've had them doing less tasks. So logically, it makes sense that they should they shouldn't still be overworked if you've been doing it consistently and you've. Oh, and I guess I'll add there's a third part of this too, with it. But then they complain about not being that youth about them. They're they don't believe that you trust them as much or that you think there is good of an employee because you're taking work away from them, or they actually complain about the work being taken away from them. So that's like a third part of this too. But the first, the first two, though, is a really the thing that is a red flag to me, where you're taking work away from them at the same time for and you've been here for a while, at the same time that they're still complaining that their have worked.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:14 So that was an interesting one. That was a tough that was maybe that was a really, really tough one to talk about. We had a really fun conversation about we didn't get into the pricing of a product. It's a service. Well, call it a product, but what the premium package looked like, it was a I thought that was a really fun conversation about, you know, packaging a premium product. How do you do that? How do you modify if you do have a product or service, you know, and how do you package it, you know, how many levels do you offer? That was kind of a that was a really kind of a fun conversation because you don't. That's not necessarily a conversation you have all the time. It's not a really common thing with law firms. It's just not this particular firm. They can actually, you know, package their services as products. Not everyone can like with like personal injury. It's kind of hard to package a product with personal injury.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:14 I think it's, you know, anything you can do, like a flat rate, you can do it. So, I mean, I guess you could do it with anything that's currently hourly that you can sell as flat rate, that those are things that you can package as products. I guess technically you could package contingency where you would just. I've never really thought about how you do it, but I mean, I guess you could do something where you charge 20% for something, you know, a third for something or 40% for something, I guess. But I guess, in a way, the firms that use the elevator where you do a third for if you settle it and 40% for it, I guess that's a way of packaging, but this was more of creating a premium offering is more with this one was about and that was that was a really kind of a fun one for sure. This was the first one, I think, where we had people in the same firm, in the same group, and that made it kind of fun because you kind of got to the truth, I'd say not to say that people don't come and tell the truth.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:13 That's not what I'm saying at all. But I guess you get down to the deeper issues because, you know, one person will present their topic because they they each had their own topics. But you have you get the sounding board and some of the feedback from the other team member. That was an interesting part of this one too, and that was part of what made it fun. A lot more fun was the fact that you had the different perspectives. That was a really interesting thing about this. And we had two groups of that to two of those groups. So, four people, so two and two that were in the same firm. And I will say they did a very good job of not saying anything during the other person's hot seat unless they were called on and I. I would have found that very, very difficult to not step in and ask questions. But they all did a really, really good job of that. Another one that came up and this particular guild member has seen really great growth.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:14 And I think a big part of the big part of their fear is, you know, the feeling of not belonging. The fear of it all going away. And it does remind me of a hot seat. The very first mastermind I went to it was John Fischer's. And someone had I'm not going to say who it was, but they were, you know, running a multi-million dollar firm and and the person's biggest fear was like losing it all, you know, and it wasn't quite to that level with this guild number where he I mean, he's seen massive growth. He's only been doing it for a couple of years, but he's seen massive growth and but he still had the the feeling of not belonging. And to see one to see his transformation from when he first started and where he is now has just been amazing. But then also seeing his transformation during the hot seat to kind of going, feeling the lack of confidence to then shifting to kind of owning it, you know, like putting on the Superman suit.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:20 That was a lot of fun. That was really cool. There was another there was a couple conversations about what it looks like to transition out of the firm where you're selling the firm. It wasn't wasn't just one with that one. There was a there were a couple of times where that came up. And, you know, when do you begin that process? How do you do that process? That was an interesting conversation, too, because especially with the different the different perspectives and how they were planning on doing it, the undervaluation that one of the firm owners had of their firm. In my opinion, they've not had the evaluation. But my guess is, is that the valuation, when they do it well, it's going to be worth substantially more than what they're what they consider. Currently consider it to be a big part of that too. Was talking about like, you know, how do you sell the firm, right. Do you sell it to an associate? How do you sell it to the associate? You know, one.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:21 How do you get the valuation like that? That was another part of it too. I think you have to start with the valuation. Once you once you've come to the conclusion because you then figure out, okay, what's the valuation. But then also what do I what elements am I missing with my firm. How do I shore up some parts of my firm to increase the valuation of it? Those things. But then okay, do you sell it to someone else in your market? Like do you sell it to your competitor? How do you start that conversation without freaking everybody out? You know, that's a really good conversation to have. I'm glad we were able to have it. That one was a fun one. I really did enjoy that one because you're it really gets you thinking about things that I don't think you would normally think about when it comes to your firm, but it's also a really good way of figuring out what's wrong with your firm. I'm a firm believer in that, in that you figure out you can figure out what is wrong with your firm when you have to, when you start to figure out what is wrong with it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:15 Think about when you're buying a house. What do a lot of people do or sell in a house? I mean, what a lot of people do, they go, they figure out kind of okay, here and this. I'm not even talking about the inspection. I'm talking about before that they go, all right, how do I increase the value of this house? So they go and they remodel their kitchen instead of, like, remodeling it while they're living in it and living in it. They actually will go and they'll remodel the kitchen. They'll redo some bath, maybe they'll redo some floors, they'll give it a new coat of paint, you know, doing all these things. But you start to see all the flaws in the house and to to increase the value of it. And that's before. And then when they get the inspection, they're going to identify some more, some deeper issues that they've got to solve. Same thing here with the firm. Right. You go. You start to put some bait on the walls.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:03 You figure out where are where, the deficiencies. You hire someone, they tell you, here's how you increase the valuation of it. It's an important conversation and maybe something that should be had sooner than at the end of your career. That way you can you can shore things up and and really create a phenomenal firm. So that was that was a really kind of interesting one. You know, there was another one where, you know, a smaller firm, but how to try to put this in the right way, but really how to manage the family dynamic of it and making sure that they're feeling valued and not I don't know if putting, you know, not trampled on. Maybe that maybe that's not the right way of putting it. But what they really wanted to do was they wanted to demonstrate to the to the employee slash family member that they completely trust them and they and they trust them so much. They have so much confidence in them. They would like to give up some of their own responsibilities to to the employee slash family member, but also at the same time, not make it feel like they're dumping on the employee, like just dumping things on them because they know that they're overworked.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:15 Maybe not. I don't know if overworked is the right word, but they're already doing a lot. But, you know, conveying that additional those are additional responsibilities while also demonstrating that they trust them so much. That's why they're doing it. They themselves were overworked. So they need to offload it to somebody. That was that was a really interesting conversation. That one was because it's that's a difficult dynamic. That's why having family members in the firm is a it can be a really tough thing. As someone that my COO is my wife, I think it was a it's a little different conversation because it's not husband and wife. It's. It is. I'm not actually I'm not going to say what it is because I don't want to I don't want to reveal that. But it's one of those things where that can get a little tricky, it can get a little dicey. And luckily, this wasn't a situation where, I mean, sometimes you hear about situations where a family member wants to fire another family member, and that's a really tough conversation.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:09 This was different. This was more of a I want to demonstrate that I trust this family member more and that this family member is amazing. And I want to take some of my responsibilities that are really high end responsibilities and pass them on. But that was a really kind of a fun, fun conversation employee. And, performance was one that came up, I think I'd say a few times that was a I would call it a common theme, but it was a theme that came up. And how do you handle that? And I will tell you the thing that came up, I mean, Brian Whitman preached it the most, as he should, and it really came down to, You okay? Do you have job scorecards? I it it's so much comes down to the hiring process and job scorecards and team members knowing their responsibilities, holding them accountable. What are the metrics that they need to meet? That was one of those things where I can't tell you how many issues could be solved in your firm today, just by having the employee scorecard.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:16 And so those of you that are in the guild, it's in Derby. We got sample scorecards in there that are in Kajaani. So you can you can check those out. And I go through how to put together your scorecard. Maybe I can do an episode on that because it's I and I may have to be honest with you, I may have done an episode on that. I don't really remember. I'll. I'll ask Becca. And if I've not done an episode on how to put to put together a job scorecard, I'm happy to do so because it's easier than you might think. It's just really answering a few questions. I think it's four total questions. And you you fill it into the job scorecard. You start the hiring process with that and you end the hiring process with that. By what I mean by that, you enter you end the employment process with that. If you have to. They have to transition to another firm or to another company, because it's really comes down to the, you know, firm's core values, but also the the job scorecard.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:13 So that was something that that was a that was a drum. Brian Bittman will he he will always beat that drum. And I think it's a, it's a wise drum to beat because job scorecards are super, super important. Trying to think, oh, so another one came up and this will probably be the I'm looking at the time, I don't have much time left, so I'll be the last one. Another one was the hesitancy to to hire. And what was interesting, this was a good one because this particular owner was trying to figure out why. They were kind of like why they won't hit the gas and why they just pump the brakes when it comes to hiring an associate. That was an interesting one, and we got into a lot of different dynamics. And really we I mean, it was something in the middle of it. I drafted up a job ad in the middle of it. I've sent it to to the law firm owner. I've already had text messages with them. And they're they're going to be doing what they need to do on their end.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:09 But that was kind of fun. Either I wanted to remove any excuses at all that they might have when it comes to hiring an attorney, but that was a it was a good one. I we, we got into some deep stuff with that one. That was something where I didn't see it going, where it went. It was a lot of fun. But yeah, that was good. I was I had a lot of fun with that one. So that one's in the books. Really enjoyed it. So we've got Nashville coming up. So if you've not gotten your tickets maxwell.com, you can get your tickets to the conference. And then you can also get tickets to the mastermind as well. So hopefully we will see you there. Hope you got something out of this show. The New York City mastermind was awesome. Really enjoyed it. Really appreciate all the people that came out to it. It was it was excellent. So a really good group of people. But hopefully we will see you all in Nashville for Maxwell and for the mastermind.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:00 Max Law con.com. We will see you all there. See you buddy.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:08 And next mastermind in New York City is sold out. But don't worry, there's still time to get your tickets to the mastermind and Max Law Con in Nashville in October. Max Law Con is three days of immersive learning, powerful insights, and meaningful connections, all designed to provide actionable strategies you'll take back to your firm and implement right away. No fluff, just real talk and tangible takeaways you can implement immediately. Go to Max events for more details.