Maximum Lawyer

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:11 So, Ryan, you had this fairly recent YouTube video and you posted about on Instagram about something like, I feel that social media you don't talk about. Yeah. What was that about?

Ryan Webber 00:00:20 So it was actually I failed at YouTube. And so I've had a YouTube channel for seven years, and I've always wanted to have this like YouTube following. I think YouTube is really cool. Yeah. And so I post it consistently and it never really grew. You know, maybe I got to a thousand subscribers, which is more than most, but it wasn't getting all the attention that I wanted until I did what I was supposed to do. And I learned on YouTube. And I had stopped posting for about six months. And then I started posting again consistently, and by doing what I was supposed to, within three weeks of doing what I was supposed to, I got monetized. And so I went from like, I needed, I think, 2000 hours of watch time over 365 days.

Ryan Webber 00:01:06 I got that within three weeks to get me over the 4000 I needed, got monetized. And it kind of kept going from there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:14 Nice. So it's funny because we were I want to get into some of the things you did because I can tell you, we we focused like almost exclusively on podcast from like 2015 or 2016 whenever we started the show up until the end of 2024. Right? So we had YouTube and.

Ryan Webber 00:01:32 I had that's when I met you and I was like, hey man, you should do YouTube with this. You're already doing it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:36 It was like, here's kind of a dumb thing, to be honest with you. I kind of thought we were and I, I wasn't monitoring it. And, you know, like, I started to monitor it and it was it was weird, like it was almost like I would call I call it like a zombie channel, almost like we were posting to it. We weren't doing jack squat with it. The numbers on YouTube were nothing compared to the podcast, And I was like, what the hell? So we've made some massive tweaks and we've met.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:01 Now we're not at your numbers, but we are like. We're definitely made like we. Our increase has been like, I don't know, 5,000%. I mean, it's been like a massive increase, but it's because we do like we're doing little tweaks, little bitty tweaks, like, like like we can talk about some things like we were doing. I'm really curious. Like I think your content is like just amazing. Like you're, you're you do framing really well with like how to do the shots and stuff like that. And so.

Ryan Webber 00:02:26 So you want me to tell you what I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:27 Did? Yeah. Because well here's before you do though, because like, I don't think it's all about like the quality of the video. Like I think it's like other small things.

Ryan Webber 00:02:35 That's nothing of what I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:37 I want to ask you about.

Ryan Webber 00:02:38 So let's hear like I just have an expensive camera. I have the camera background. Obviously, I shoot videos for people. So that I knew wasn't the thing.

Ryan Webber 00:02:46 The thing was, first off, the the most important thing was I call it a platypus channel. So my channel had a little bit on marketing. ahead a little bit on videography. It had a bit on camera gear review, so the algorithm doesn't know who to put this in front of because it's for everybody. So I went super specific and said, this is for small business owners trying to grow and learn. And then I got even more niece and said, there's small business owners wanting to use social media for marketing, and then I only make content for that over and over and over again. So now they're like, I know who to post this. I know how to put this in front of. That was step one. Step two. It doesn't matter how good of your video is if nobody clicks it. So the title and thumbnail are so important. The packaging of it is the most important thing after you kind of figure out your niche. So stick to it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:40 You figured out the niche and then like I guess, how do you convey that to YouTube to to make sure that YouTube understands other than like the actual video.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:49 Right? I'm talking about like other like how do you indicate that to YouTube?

Ryan Webber 00:03:52 So you just do it over and over again and you don't stray. But I also I found outliers. So I said this other channel is like me. Every time they post a video like this, it's an outlier. It outperforms everything else around their channel. So that means it's good. Yeah, I should probably do that in my own words and use there. Either it's the topic or the title, or the thumbnail or all of the above, and try to figure out why that's an outlier for them and repackage it in my own words.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:24 Like how important is the description part of it?

Ryan Webber 00:04:26 None. I don't change the description. Now, the description for every video is exactly the same for me, really. And Tiff and everyone I work with, it's always the same.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:35 Is it like a call to action?

Ryan Webber 00:04:37 100%.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:38 So the first one don't do any different. It's the exact same thing.

Ryan Webber 00:04:41 The description for me.

Ryan Webber 00:04:42 Now, the first thing that you see is my lead magnet. The second thing you see is my paid option. And then I have like some SEO filler below it. So it's like for Tiff, it's like Tiffany Webber is a real estate attorney in Mooresville North.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:56 You're pissing me off because I spend way too much time on this.

Ryan Webber 00:04:59 I used to, and I stopped and my numbers did not change, and I actually started getting more conversions of people getting my lead magnet.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:06 So what's in your description that. That's it.

Ryan Webber 00:05:09 That's it. So call to action for lead magnet. That's free call to action for by my stuff SEO filler.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:16 The end is that is that like all the big channels are doing.

Ryan Webber 00:05:19 go look at Alex from Moses. All of his descriptions are exactly the same. Every single one. That's that. It's by my books. Here's the free thing. Here's this. Here's the description about Alex's history and background.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:31 The end I have learned like to just go rip off what other people are doing, like, you know, like, like, see what's working and just rip that off.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:38 They've done that, like the thumbnails and stuff. Like we we have our own unique thumbnail, but we, we try to make it where it's like very it's clickable. Right. It's like so we, we have two versions of the same thumbnail we're using. We use a picture of the guest for the most part. You'll, you'll we'll have a picture of you. We'll put you on there. And it is like whatever the main thing of this discussion. The main like takeaway is usually like what's in the big bold part of the. It's like, that's the word, but it's a part of a sentence. It's kind of like a it's, it's it's kind of like.

Ryan Webber 00:06:08 Podcast quotes work really well. So if there's like a really bold statement or interesting quote or it needs to relate to the title to make you interested, to want to click and learn more. So it can't be the same. So, you know, what I used to do is have the words be exactly the same. So if I'm saying like how to do social media on YouTube, I would be like YouTube, social media or something like that in the thumbnail.

Ryan Webber 00:06:31 And that's wrong. It should be like it's so easy. And then the title is better.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:38 The something else we've learned to is the title consistency and the to the thumbnail where it's important. Yeah, it's because otherwise it clashes.

Ryan Webber 00:06:47 I spend over 50% of the time on the video, on the title and the thumbnail.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:52 Wait. No.

Ryan Webber 00:06:53 Yes. No, I'm not joking.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:56 What? Why? Because it's so important. Okay.

Ryan Webber 00:07:00 It's so important. The title of the video is literally the most important thing, because the video doesn't matter if no one clicks it. So you actually don't need to spend time on the video. If the title and the thumbnail is not going to get someone to click it. So you're wasting your time making videos unless someone actually watches it. So I go title first, I go thumbnail concept second. That's 50% of my thought process. And so that gives me my topic. Then I go intro. And I spend 25% of my time on the intro in the last 25% is actually recording the video.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:34 Wow.

Ryan Webber 00:07:34 And the edit doesn't matter.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:36 Are you recording a separate intro from the video? Yes. Oh, wow. Okay.

Ryan Webber 00:07:41 This is all new for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:42 So that's something that, like, we had a training in the in the guild.

Ryan Webber 00:07:45 And you want you want the framework for it?

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:47 Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:07:49 Here you go.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:50 That's fantastic. I didn't know you.

Ryan Webber 00:07:52 Had three.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:52 PS. Okay. PS, three PS.

Ryan Webber 00:07:54 20s or less.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:55 Three PS 20s or less.

Ryan Webber 00:07:57 Pain proof. Promise.

Tyson Mutrux 00:07:59 Okay.

Ryan Webber 00:08:00 So example for this one, if I were doing something for my channel around social media, I'd say law firm owners want to get on social media, but they don't have enough time and don't know what to do. I've recorded over 10,000 videos, a lot of them for law firm owners, and I know exactly what you need to do to put in your videos in the least amount of time possible. So stick around in this video and I'll give you the five things you need to know to make sure you have an effective social media strategy with little time.

Ryan Webber 00:08:27 Okay, that was less than 20s. Pain was I want to record videos, but I don't have time. I don't know what to do. Proof I've done it. And then the promise is what you're going to get in the video.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:37 Give me a very short answer on this one, because there's a reason why I ask you this. So I want you to think about like if there's like one thing you really want to talk about in this episode that you really want to get out. I want you to look at that camera and do the three P's, because we'll use that for this video.

Ryan Webber 00:08:52 I don't know. I don't know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:54 We're going to where the pressure is on. I don't know any of this. Here's the thing. You didn't know we were going to record this until about midnight. Maybe last night. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean.

Ryan Webber 00:09:03 I, I don't know where we're going to take the conversation, so it's hard. I actually record these at the end. Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:09:07 So I record my whole video first, then I go back and record the intro last.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:11 What do you know the most about it? Like, other than Jim's I know you know about Jim's.

Ryan Webber 00:09:16 I think it's probably around like content marketing, branding, how it all kind of aligns to grow a small business.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:25 Okay. So let's do we'll talk about that.

Ryan Webber 00:09:28 Do you do you want me to try it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:29 Let's give it a shot. Okay. But this is not scripted. This is something that is completely off the cuff.

Ryan Webber 00:09:35 All right. Law firm owners are struggling to grow their business because they don't build a brand that's long lasting. I actually have built a YouTube channel for my wife, who is a lawyer that has over 85,000 subscribers. So in this video, I'm going to talk to Tyson, and we're going to show you what we're doing to build a brand for a lawyer that helps actually grow the business and make her more money.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:57 I love it.

Ryan Webber 00:09:59 I would clean it up, but like, that's generally it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:01 Well, that's all I mean, that's right off the cuff. Like you didn't even skip a beat on that. That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

Ryan Webber 00:10:06 For quite a lot of videos.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:07 That's pretty good okay. But let's go. We're gonna we'll come back to that okay. All right. So the branding marketing whatever you said. Yeah we'll get that a little bit. It doesn't matter. It does because they're going to think we're going to talk about that.

Ryan Webber 00:10:17 So click.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:18 Bait. Yeah. Back to the YouTube. So are there advanced tools and stuff you get as you get higher in like the subscribers and all that and the views that like the the peasants like us like on like.

Ryan Webber 00:10:30 Do you have the a, b testing on the thumbnails.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:33 That's going to ask you if there's a B testing. I don't know because I, Sharon, takes care of like the thumbnails and stuff.

Ryan Webber 00:10:38 So now you can upload three thumbnails at once and just let YouTube Choose which one performs and just let it run.

Ryan Webber 00:10:46 So I like to do either three different variations of the text, or three different variations of the photo or background color, but just do like three small changes. Yeah, and just let YouTube pick.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:00 Have you thought about going back and reviving old videos? Like what changes?

Ryan Webber 00:11:03 I have and I just don't have the time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:04 Because I thought it'd be really cool. There's an AI idea where you go, go fix my old videos, if that would be kind of cool.

Ryan Webber 00:11:11 Well, I mean, I know for a fact that old videos still work like our one of our best. The reason this channel is so big, the thing that like popped was a video that was posted two years prior to when it popped. I did nothing to it. It just happened.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:26 You have no idea why?

Ryan Webber 00:11:27 No. I wish I could tell you it's like pure luck. Algorithm luck.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:31 I mean, I don't understand that. That makes zero sense to me.

Ryan Webber 00:11:34 I 100% agree with you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:36 Was it out there? Do you know if it was after, like, an algorithm change or something?

Ryan Webber 00:11:39 I don't know.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:40 But that is why it makes no sense.

Ryan Webber 00:11:42 To me. I was sitting there on a Saturday morning and I looked down at my phone and I'm like, Tiff, you just got like 20 comments on this one video. So I clicked in the analytics and it's literally just a straight line up. And we got.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:53 One of who Tiffany is. Have you said, did you say that's your wife?

Ryan Webber 00:11:55 I have a wife. Her name's Tiffany.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:57 Yeah. It's it's it's she owns the real estate firm. And so you handle the marketing side of stuff. I make sure people know who Tiff is, like, tell the YouTube channel what that channel is. So that because it is, if you're, I mean, as a lawyer like it is that to me is like, that's the standard.

Ryan Webber 00:12:10 Yeah. It's the real estate lawyer. Good title. And literally she goes in and tries to educate buyers and agents on complex real estate topics or really like things you would need in real estate closings.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:25 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:25 I, I wonder I've asked this question of several people and I get kind of mixed answers. Do you think it's important to have a person behind it, or can the firm just it can be like the firm name.

Ryan Webber 00:12:38 We've toyed around with. We've struggled with that. And so from a branding perspective on YouTube, I think it's easier to build one person. But then at the same time, you get the common risk of just one person. Sure. Yeah. So what we do is YouTube is tiffs. We bring in our other attorneys to be guests so that they can have the presence. But she is the host and the main person. Think about Dave Ramsey. Same thing like it's Dave Ramsey. But he brings in all of his people. Yeah. And then on our Instagram we bring in same thing because if Tiff already has the brand, if you just sit down and talk with Tiff, then you're related to her. You know, she's you're trusted. And so people automatically build the trust with the person that's brought on.

Ryan Webber 00:13:21 And so we use Instagram to try and like build the trust with our other attorneys more. And we use YouTube as like TIFF's big because it's not as local. Instagram's more local.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:31 What are some other things you do with the YouTube channel to make it better?

Ryan Webber 00:13:34 That's the main.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:35 It really is simple, right?

Ryan Webber 00:13:36 I don't post shorts anymore. We start posting shorts.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:39 Okay, so that's where I'll disagree with you on the strategy because we've.

Ryan Webber 00:13:42 All shorts do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:43 Here's the reason folks are back to they get you back. Okay. Let's hear.

Ryan Webber 00:13:47 Here's the reason why shorts give you views. It gives you subscribers. But a short form viewer does not watch long form videos. So if you get someone from a short and they go to the long form video, they don't want to sit around and watch ten 20 minutes. Typically if they came from a short form platform.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:05 So they were specific because we're talking about specifically like the 60s. We're not talking like the five minute ones, because that's not a.

Ryan Webber 00:14:12 Short to me, because if you're a viewer of 62nd content, you don't want to watch ten minute content.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:17 Okay, I may or I don't know. I feel like the shorts have been a really big part of our strategy.

Ryan Webber 00:14:22 It will grow views, it will grow subscribers. But if you look at your long form videos, is the long form numbers increasing and is the calls to action on your long form increasing? Because that's what I care about, okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:34 And I want to. So something I want to talk about too is like. Does any of this lead to clients? And I think that,

Ryan Webber 00:14:40 My channel, my little tiny YouTube channel, 3900 subscribers right now. I've only been consistent for about two months. I think I've posted 20 videos in two months. Three months, sorry, three months, 20 videos. I've gotten 70 leads to my free lead magnet 100% from YouTube because I've only posted that lead magnet on YouTube.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:58 This is gonna prove my point. Not that. Not about the shorts being right, but about the other point, which is I'm going to contradict myself in a second about the importance of shorts.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:06 I think the shorts are important for driving traffic for the channel and all those all those statistics, all those numbers. But and I think that I actually think that if you talk to someone on YouTube and is like, yeah, the algorithm helps with us.

Ryan Webber 00:15:17 I have a guy that I pay that's a YouTube strategist. Okay, cool. I'm paying a.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:22 Lot. Well, here's my thought. I've been on this opinion for a long time. Okay. A lot of these shorts don't lead to clients. The shorts don't lead to clients. They just don't. Unless they get you. Unless you get them back to the freaking main channel. They. That's why you see all these, like. Like, call like TikTok lawyers that go and it all has to filter back to something else. If it doesn't. That's why they all talk about like, all parts of law like, and they don't talk about like, like niches, but it all has a direct back to something else. Because like you talked about Jim's, his YouTube channel, all the TikToks, it all leads back to his show and stuff.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:54 It's all he's all trying to get them to go to the show. He's got this like, there's got to be a funnel involved with the short is not directly going to lead to a case. For the most part.

Ryan Webber 00:16:03 The two things that I think about is average view duration. So if you're a short form viewer, you have a short average view duration. When you go to my long form videos, you bring my average view duration down, which is going to hurt the algorithm for me. Yeah. And then second thing, the old adage of like, you need 7 to 14 touches of a person, you'd think like, hey, shorts will work. I get more touches. It's kind of flipped. It's more about time consuming you. So if a short is 30s.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:30 Yeah, that's what I call it. So session time.

Ryan Webber 00:16:31 So it's now like 2 to 3 hours of with a person. So if I can do ten long form videos that are 20 minutes long and that's what they watch, or I'd have to do like 200 short form videos to get the same result.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:44 That's why I think the shorts are going to be important for the because of the session, because that's a recent change with with YouTube, where that's why they want to make sure you have all the cards at the end pointing back to something one of your having all that optimised, but then also different playlists for all your stuff. I can't remember what else. There's other ways of like improving session time where like they're staying on you like that. That's an important part of it.

Ryan Webber 00:17:06 I mean, the guy that is our short form editor who was he's been with me since 2018, and he just stopped working with us for TIFF's channel. He has 1.7 million YouTube subscribers, and he only does shorts.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:19 That's wild. But does it lead to results for him?

Ryan Webber 00:17:22 Well, he doesn't have a business. His business is content.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:25 Oh, okay.

Ryan Webber 00:17:25 But he makes $30,000 a month from his YouTube shorts. So there's his business.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:30 Because you all make money off the YouTube channels, right? Not much. Not not.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:33 You'd still make money off, I think.

Ryan Webber 00:17:34 When it was bigger. So when we were getting more views on long form videos. I think our biggest month was like 1600 bucks right now at this current day. It actually over the last 28 days is only like $450.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:48 Yeah, I don't think the amount matters. I just think it's an interesting thing that you're doing it for, for business purposes anyways, but you also get paid for that. So it's a nice.

Ryan Webber 00:17:57 We get about 15 phone calls a week because of our videos. Now, I don't know if that's YouTube, but I don't know if it's Instagram. But I mean, I was talking to you this morning. I spent about $450 on ads for another practice. Well, that money came directly from YouTube.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:11 So you said 33 to 1 return or.

Ryan Webber 00:18:13 Have a 33 to 1 ROI for the ads right now. Pretty good. So I took the free money that YouTube paid me. I spent it in ads, and now I've gotten 13 $14,000 from that ad spend that YouTube paid me the $450 to spend on ads.

Ryan Webber 00:18:29 That's how I use it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:30 I'm gonna shift gears because you have an airplane to catch in a little bit. So I talked about her. Mosey. Okay. Did you know you were going to be on the show? No. Okay, so you sent me that clip. You said only listen to the first three minutes. And I was like, why would I want to listen to just the three minutes? But. And then I quickly learned why you don't talk about that. Sure. What was the clip about? Tell people the clip. We can put it in the show.

Ryan Webber 00:18:51 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:51 So I this is why I think the description is important. You put the show notes in there.

Ryan Webber 00:18:54 Yeah, I maybe I've had this maybe existential crisis might be the easiest way to explain it over the past two years. So we on the law firm, it crushes it. It does great. I also own the marketing company. Once again, crushes. It does great. I've always loved working with my wife, and I've always thought, like, my skill set.

Ryan Webber 00:19:15 I mean, any law firm, if you have someone that's really good at marketing and you bring them in and they put all of their effort into it, your business is going to grow really well. So my question to him was basically like, hey, I have this law firm. Should I go all into the law firm and stop doing my marketing company. Should I go all in on the marketing company? Should I hire someone to run the marketing company? That's basically been like my like, my internal conflict over the last two years, because I know I can go into the law firm and kill it. But I have this other thing that's making me a bunch of money on the side. It's not on the side. It's my full time gig. But my company is seven times smaller than the law firm. So what if I took all of my hours and just put it in the law firm? Would we grow faster? The Weber family in general. Would we grow faster? I don't know, like that's I've struggled with this for a while.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:06 Yeah. You want to give away the goods on what Moses said?

Ryan Webber 00:20:09 Yeah. So he said shut down the marketing company and go 100% in the law firm in.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:14 Do you agree with that?

Ryan Webber 00:20:15 I didn't. I'm not doing that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:18 I want to hear why.

Ryan Webber 00:20:20 So I think what he really means is you should put 100% of your focus on one thing. you shouldn't have your focus split. So while I agree that if I only put my focus on the law firm, it would grow. But at the same time, if I say Tiff runs it and she's killing it, and I put all of my focus on my marketing company, I can double the marketing company. And I already have super high profit margins.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:47 They're ridiculously high margins. They're really.

Ryan Webber 00:20:49 Good. And so if I look at it, if Tiff and I are only pulling from one income source, aka the law firm, if we have a bad year, we, the Webber family struggles.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:59 Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:21:00 But if I have the marketing company that can help keep everything consistent, then I'd rather pull money from two different areas rather than put all my eggs in one basket.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:09 I think it's fair. I mean, I kind of I gave you my thoughts. I it's one of those things like, it's hard to like, I think it's easy to say, hey, like, I disagree with this, you know, 100 millionaire or whatever.

Ryan Webber 00:21:20 Yeah. Like him sitting up there on stage making 200 million a year. It's easy to be like, yeah, shut down your business.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:26 My issue with with what he said is part was two things, right? I told you he was very quick to dismiss it, but it also seemed to contradict the way he operates. And that's why I was like, kind of like because you had you had proposed. What do you think about like, like an owner operator situation where you're the owner. So and then you take and you hire an operator, and the operator runs everything.

Ryan Webber 00:21:48 And it makes plenty of money to do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:50 That. And it really wouldn't. It seems like it'd be fairly easy to do that. And my problem is he didn't give any thought at all.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:57 And it seems to me that and he interesting. I may completely misunderstand his model, but from what? From talking to you, from talking to Paul, you can buy this from listening to to to her. I feel like I can get a decent idea, and it seems like you propose the exact same thing that he does, and he didn't give it a thought. It was very quick. The response you said it wasn't edited, so it's like that was my issue with it. He just didn't give it a thought.

Ryan Webber 00:22:19 Yeah, I mean, I agree with him. If his philosophy was you need to put all your eggs in one bag or like put all your focus in one thing. I agree with that. Yeah, but if my wife is able to manage that all by herself and doesn't need my help, then she's already a client. Just let her continue being a client. If she wants more marketing help, pay more money.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:39 Well, here's the here's where I think it makes sense to do the operator, because you're still focusing on the firm.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:46 Yes. You're just still making money off of the the marketing company. That's what's that's what's kind of weird to me is like, nothing, nothing really changes with his opinion other than the fact you're not closing the marketing company is what it would be. Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:23:00 I agree way more with you. Like if I found an operator or someone to take me way out of the day to day and those extra hours I gain, I can put 100% focus into law firm in those extra hours. I think it would be the the biggest ROI for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:16 So if you are living in North Carolina and you want to maybe be an operator at the Lake Mooresville, is it? So I got to ask you about this subject. But if you're interested. Reach out to to Ryan. But is so you call it Mooresville. Like we have the Lake of the Ozarks. Is Mooresville the lake or like I there's not understand there's like there's a bunch of little towns around.

Ryan Webber 00:23:38 Lake Norman is the lake. And Mooresville is a city at the lake.

Ryan Webber 00:23:43 And it's the largest city at the lake.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:45 Okay. Got it. So it's like. All right.

Ryan Webber 00:23:48 So so if you're saying you're coming to the lake. Yeah, you're probably going within, like a five mile stretch.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:55 Gotcha. I am I am fairly sure and I, I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit this. I'm pretty sure there's a town around Lake of the Ozarks called Lake Ozark. It's a tiny town, but there's like other other little towns around the Lake of the Ozarks. That's why I didn't know if it was like, is it like the Mooresville Lake or something like that?

Ryan Webber 00:24:12 But it's it's like if you're in the Charlotte area, if you say, I'm going to the lake, you are coming to Lake Norman. Yeah. It's like 30 minutes north.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:19 All right. Let's give the people what they came here for because you gave them the tease of the beginning. What? What? Talk about the branding and and all that. That you. That you. You promised at the beginning.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:31 The peop the the p three, phase three.

Ryan Webber 00:24:34 Three P's. Pain proof. Promise. So if you're starting any sort of video, especially on YouTube, first thing you need to start is with the pain that the person is experiencing. So if you call out the pain as your hook, then you're buying. You're getting them to buy into it. So if you are experiencing X, Y, Z and want this, you're in the right place. Because we got to think of the title of our video needs to immediately get answered in the first 20s.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:04 Okay, but so you delivered that the three P's in the in the intro, right? Or the the the lead into this. And so at the beginning of it. And so what how does that relate to like the marketing or I guess maybe it doesn't relate to the marketing but like what's like the marketing you talking about the marketing, the branding and all that other related. What? I can't remember what your intro was.

Ryan Webber 00:25:23 Yeah, and that's why I always record the intro after the whole video.

Ryan Webber 00:25:26 So I know what we're we talk about. But yeah, I mean, I have the philosophy of like, lawyer marketing's bad and it's outdated.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:34 What's bad about it? Let's start with.

Ryan Webber 00:25:36 That because it's boring and it's outdated and it's stuffy and it's not relatable.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:42 Are you specifically talking to, like, commercials or ads on Facebook?

Ryan Webber 00:25:46 I'm using generalities. Okay, so not all lawyers are bad, but.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:51 No, I get that. But like. Like what? Marketing. I'm curious about marketing, you see.

Ryan Webber 00:25:54 Oh, like and don't get mad at me. I'm just saying like I would do things different, but like billboards, commercials, the mailers, basically any social media I see, websites, language, all of that I think is poor. It could be improved. I'm not saying the the thing you're doing is bad, like I think billboards would work, but I don't think you should have the same billboard as every other lawyer. Make it different. Make it unique. Make it stand out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:21 By the way, I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just trying to get some examples for people. I think.

Ryan Webber 00:26:26 If you look at our social media. Yeah, on the law firm, social media, it's completely different than any other law firm, social media. We're making jokes. We have a whole series going on right now where it's called confessions at the Closing Table. It's pretty good and pretty good. It's just us telling silly stories like parodies of things, conversations that happen at the closing table.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:46 Do you have an acting background?

Ryan Webber 00:26:47 I do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:47 Not. Okay. Because like, you're you done? You've done some ads. You're really good at it. And so is Tiff had any background in that? No, because you all are like you all. You have a really good presence on camera. So what is your advice to people on that? You gave me some good advice when we were shooting at some ads earlier.

Ryan Webber 00:27:01 Man, I don't even know what I say now. talk to the camera as if it's just one person.

Ryan Webber 00:27:07 So I imagine, like, if I'm making an ad for Tyson, like if Tyson's my avatar, a lawyer, that's personal injury. I'm literally thinking of Tyson in my brain. I'm saying, you know, do you have a law firm that's doing well and you want to grow it more and you don't know what to do on social media? You're trying to grow your YouTube channel. Man, here's what I can do for you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:26 So you the advice you gave me was think of a person that that you that's had been in that exact same situation and just say that.

Ryan Webber 00:27:33 Yeah, most of the time telling those stories is way easier than trying to come up with stuff.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:37 Yeah, it was, it was it was really good. I like I mean, your ads are really cool and I don't want to get too much too far out into the weeds and stuff. But we were we were having a conversation about, like, polished, being too polished and not polished enough. How much what matters like, does it matter? Like how you look on camera and like, I like talking about that part of it.

Ryan Webber 00:27:55 Yeah, I've actually like reverted some of the content. So like I've actually made it look worse than I could make it. Yeah. Because too polished makes it feel like an ad in a commercial. So if it looks more organic or natural or UGC user generated content generally performs better. So I've actually stopped making like the super high end stuff because it wasn't performing as well, and we've like dialed it back a little bit.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:22 I do think a lot of people think, and I think it becomes like if you watch like, Mr. Beast, right? Really, really highly produced. I feel like you either have to do that or you don't need much at all.

Ryan Webber 00:28:37 So like my YouTube channel, I used to edit a bunch and now it's like we only do scale ins. I only use one camera. I have three different types of graphics or like things that we do or text, whatever you want to call them. And that's it. Yeah. I don't have background music. I don't have sound effects.

Ryan Webber 00:28:57 I don't have transitions.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:58 It's this. Yes. So basically we got rid of is on the videos like no intros. We just jump straight into the content. which is I think that's helped tremendously because it kind of like sucks people in a little bit.

Ryan Webber 00:29:08 That's, that's I think if you went back and said, okay, now I'm going to do a 15 second intro based on what that conversation was. It would help set the stage for what.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:18 That even.

Ryan Webber 00:29:19 More.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:20 Instead of. So don't jump straight into it. Just you start with an intro.

Ryan Webber 00:29:23 You start with like if this conversation our podcast here, you sit down and said, you know, if you're looking for this, this and this, I sat down with this guy and he's done this. So stick around and watch the whole episode. I and you did that in 20s.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:39 It was a little inside baseball for everybody. We did that for a short amount of time because that was the original plan. And, what was what ended up happening was, was I started I would record them weeks or months after we were.

Ryan Webber 00:29:52 Yeah, that was the problem. You got to do it right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:54 And I and I that was and so I was having to go back and re listen to it or remember what I did. And then I didn't feel like it was super. I just didn't feel like I was nailing it. So I may I could try it again. I just was one of those things where like it was, I just didn't think it was very good. And it was is because like we have like this new rule where it's like, if it's not like if it's not really good or great, like it's not.

Ryan Webber 00:30:17 Airing and podcasts are different to than like a regular YouTube video. So what we'll do with Tiff when she's doing podcasts with people, I'll just take like 2 or 3 of the sentences that I like the best, and I'll just put them at the beginning of the whole episode with no context. It's like, interesting sentence, crazy statement, another one right into like, okay, so I'm here with.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:39 You know, it's interesting, like you have, like you have these massive contrasts. And so it's great to look at these bigger channels to get an idea. But it's like if you use a podcast, right. Like Joe Rogan still has like an intro video. He is the king of podcasts. He has the has by far the most. But if you like, if you have like diary of a CEO, you're watching any of that stuff. So I'm pulling this up now because his I think he's the best. But Sean Ryan is amazing. modern wisdom Amazing. They're like. They're intros. Actually, modern wisdom jumps right in.

Ryan Webber 00:31:14 My first million uses literally like a half of a sentence.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:19 That's that's a good one too. So here, I mean, I'm going to play the beginning of one of the diary of a CEO videos because I think I think he is.

Ryan Webber 00:31:27 Don't they just use quotes like like statement, statement, statement, statement?

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:31 But there's a better part. It's not just that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:34 So it's.

Ryan Webber 00:31:34 Better.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:35 Okay. So here I'll play it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:37 I've had patients go from stage four cancer to stage zero. So I have now seen where the end of cancer is coming from. I've seen how the war is going to finish. And here's how. Doctor William.

Ryan Webber 00:31:48 Lee is at.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:49 Harvard.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:49 So let's see how what they do is here's how they'll go through and they'll actually bleep out parts. They'll say, here are the three things. It's beep, beep beep. And like it's a lot of videos. It'll actually they'll in the intro they'll play the beeps. So you're like I want to know what the I want to know what you just said. And that's why I think it's good. And that's that's really heavily produced. Yeah, but I think you either have to go to that level or you don't do any of that stuff because otherwise it's just it's kind of pointless. Now, I guess you could add the layer of like the intro. It's just it's just it is more work.

Ryan Webber 00:32:22 I, I would rather do what diary of a CEO did and like use a quote from the podcast, put it at the beginning and be like, they want to hear where that like, what is that context you've now it's, you know, the story loop, you've opened a story loop and they're like, I need to close the loop. I need to know what happened.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:40 Right. Yeah. It does a really good job that so that I mean, that would be good. I like the underlying music that they have underneath it. That's pretty good.

Ryan Webber 00:32:47 If you look at like my recent stuff, we've done that. you know, we we really ramp up this intro. We put a little music behind the intro, we put the text on the screen during the intro and that's it. Like after that, it's literally just plain old talking cutting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:01 Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:33:01 And a couple texts here and there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:03 So we were talking a little bit about branding a little bit, and I want to come back to that where you're talking about billboards, so I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:08 I am. I'm not a proponent of billboards. I'm not a proponent of TV ads or commercial or radio or any of that just because the cost. There's way more effective ways of doing it. But but it does work. It's one of the things that does work, but it has to be like a total branding play. It can't be like I'm throwing out billboards for three months and let's see how it works. It's not, it's not it's not like you can do that Google ads. You can't do that with that. It doesn't. It doesn't make sense. So you wanna talk a little bit about that part of it and maybe disagree I don't know.

Ryan Webber 00:33:38 No no no I, I do agree and like I'm huge on branding. I'm huge on just literally gaining more awareness. So like one of my marketing philosophies is if more people know you exist, the more money you're going to make because you have more at bats, you have more opportunities. So I if you just want to grow your business, just let more people know that you exist in whatever way possible.

Ryan Webber 00:34:01 It literally doesn't matter. Is that shaking hands? Is that posting more on social media? Is it running ads? Is it posting more billboards? Doesn't matter if more people know you exist, you have more opportunities to make more money. So with the billboard, if your billboard looks like everyone else's billboard and sounds like everyone else's billboard, they still don't know you exist because it looks like everyone else. So I needed the billboard to have a unique message or a unique thing, and that's going to make you now become aware.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:28 Let's design a billboard right now. Let's do it.

Ryan Webber 00:34:30 Let's come up. So, like your personal injury. Okay. What is a normal personal injury Billboard like this is what I would do. This is my marketing philosophy for the law firm. For every client I work with, I say, what is the normal? Okay, we're doing opposite.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:43 So here's what I think. They're the for my firm I work for adultos. Let me give him another compliment. I gave him one before.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:51 I don't normally do that, but I think he does a really good job in one thing with it. He makes it very simple as opposed to a lot of other ones. So the majority of them are something about the firm name injury lawyers and a phone number. And like pictures of them on it. That's standard. That's pretty typical. But what they typically do for the most part is they over. They put too much on there. The thing that he did was he created this. It's the same one from 22,008. They're using the same design from 2008, but I think it's effective. He created it in a PowerPoint slide, and it was their phone number. A picture of him. It was him and his brother. His brother. His brother passed and the firm name. And that's it. But it's it's a total part of their overall. It's they've got TV commercials. They've got this late night infomercial. It's it's it's called wild. That's kind of out there, but it's kind of wild.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:47 But I think it's, it's it's simple. It's part of their branding play. So it works for them that but the standard the I'd say the more standard one is it's a, it's a picture of multiple lawyers. A lot of things on the, on the, on the billboard. a phone number and the firm name. But it's like it's too much stuff is usually what it is. That's what it.

Ryan Webber 00:36:08 Is. So one of my favorite ones, when I'm driving down the seal Brooks, Derek will give him a shout out on the side of the road. We have hurt bad. Call Chad.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:18 It's great.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:20 I saw one similar to that. It may have been that one, but.

Ryan Webber 00:36:22 But it makes me laugh.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:23 Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Ryan Webber 00:36:24 That's the difference. Yeah. You know now there, there's a lot of them doing it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:27 So don't wait. Call tape.

Ryan Webber 00:36:29 Yeah yeah yeah I think one you can get away from like the hurt aspect. So you could I mean I, I'd have to think of it, but like something that comes to my mind real quick and I don't know how this would even relate is a white or or like a rainbow with a unicorn jumping over the rainbow because you're going to see that and be like, what is this.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:56 Thing, a squatty potty?

Ryan Webber 00:36:57 And it just says something like, car wreck, I can help. Yeah, because it's so basic and simple. But, like, the whole image is a pattern interrupt. So when you're driving down the road, you see all these, like, lawyer billboards. It's almost all lawyers driving down the road. Then you see a rainbow with a unicorn jumping over the rainbow. And it's like, what?

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:17 Yeah. Okay, so let's let's improve on this. I like the idea of getting their attention, even though it's in a wild way I do. So you've got the pattern interrupt I love pattern interruptions. If you're in a this is a frame. But if you're in a funk, think about what your morning routine is and just do something completely different and do that. It'll help it'll with the pattern. But back to this. What what it's missing and what 99% of billboards are missing is what's in it for the client. That is where like, it's missing something.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:44 So I think if you had you have the unicorn, the rainbow. And I think if maybe you had like a pot of gold on the other side where there's, you know, there's, there's a competitor in Saint Louis, they say call for get more. That is like they I'm going to get more money by calling this. Yeah, I think that's what's in it for.

Ryan Webber 00:38:02 And I'm 100% in like I think you're you're spot on with that. So like if I sat down and really thought more about it, I think it's a you either need to to spark more pain, like avoid doing more of this or you need to increase the, the benefit of like get more of the thing you want. So but really clear, really concise as, as small amount of text and words as possible. So like we created our and Tiff actually came up with our slogan it's we help people make smart legal decisions. It's that simple basic. And then when you start breaking down every word, it's like, oh, that's actually really good.

Ryan Webber 00:38:41 You can't improve it. I use the least amount of short, concise, punchy words as possible to convey what we do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:49 Yeah. And now to make that shorter, even punchier on, you have to find a way to make a shorter and punchy for a billboard. Right. Because we were going by some of the silliest ones I see is like people QR codes on there. I'm like, you put QR codes on a billboard and you're asking people to go out and drive and like, like, that's crazy to me. Yeah, I think I also think some of the more impactful ones are. I'll give another competitor, Brown and Crouppen, some credit. They like, they'll be like, they'll like pick a cause and they'll, they'll, they'll like, say something about the cause, like supporting some group. And I think that.

Ryan Webber 00:39:20 That's that's a good.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:20 Idea. Yeah, that's pretty good.

Ryan Webber 00:39:21 So I know there's a guy down in South Carolina that does, like, bicycle accidents and he gives out helmets for kids, and you could do something like 1000 helmets to children in 2025.

Ryan Webber 00:39:38 Law firm name?

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:39 Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a really good one.

Ryan Webber 00:39:41 And like a photo with a kid riding on a bicycle, like, you know, kids, kids, dogs, babies, they all sell. So like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:47 Put.

Ryan Webber 00:39:48 Put a picture.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:48 Of them. One of the most brilliant ones I've heard is, you know, x percentage of every settlement goes to this Bern foundation. Like, we're like, yeah, it's like, that's a pretty good one cause it's related to injury work. I think that's pretty good too.

Ryan Webber 00:40:00 I think anything you can do opposite of your normal, what you would see, like if you if you know where your billboard is going to be, look at the one that's next to it or before it and say I'm doing literally opposite of that. If that one's dark, mine's going to be light. If that one was red, mine's going to be green. Like just literally opposite of every single thing that billboard is because it's going to be a pattern interrupt.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:22 So we're we're going to start wrapping things up to get you the airport. But I what is from like a branding marketing standpoint. Like what is your plan for for your firm? I'm curious like how because with we we've talked about a lot about AI over the last few weeks and all that. Like there's a lot of things we've been talking about, like, like the world is shifting and I wonder what your what if you've thought of I'm sure you probably have given it that much thought. Like what's sort of like what's the, the the approach you're going to take over the next year or so.

Ryan Webber 00:40:53 I mean, I think there's two things that are going to happen in the world that I'm going to go on both of them. So I'm not going to I'm not going to avoid or or get rid of one. I think there's going to be a huge group of people that jump on AI, and they want everything as convenient as possible. They don't ever want to go in person. They want to make things as easy and simple as possible, and we're going to do that.

Ryan Webber 00:41:16 But I think there's a huge opportunity to focus on physical goods, in-person events, the personal relationships. Because with the AI technology that's happening, I think that's great for you to make your law firm more efficient. I'm 1,000% in like, if I could do only AI right now, I would. But with that being said, people are going to be missing that relationship. They're going to be missing the physicalness of they already are things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:45 And I'm saying this for years. They already are. They're missing it. Yeah.

Ryan Webber 00:41:47 Like one of the things we're adding when you go to a closing, you have to you show up to our office. Can you do e closings? For sure. But when you walk down the hallway, I played college football. I want it to feel like going through a tunnel to a college football game. And so when you go in your closing room, it's like, yeah, like.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:06 That's pretty cool, I like that.

Ryan Webber 00:42:07 And then I want to take photos and Polaroid.

Ryan Webber 00:42:10 So they literally leave with their closing photo. And I want to have it in like a little, almost like a, like a hockey card or baseball card, hard case. And give it to them so they can like, keep it like a keepsake. So like little things like that I think is going to be really, really important over the next five years because who else is doing it. Everyone's trying to be automated and offline. Well I'm not going to remember that one. I'm going to remember the experience I had with these in-person things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:39 That's incredible I love that idea. Let's wrap up with you telling people how to get in touch with you if they want to hire you for marketing stuff.

Ryan Webber 00:42:45 Probably the fastest, easiest way, honestly, is Instagram and web marketing and DM me if you're not on Instagram, get on Instagram. But yeah. Ryan Weber, marketing on Instagram.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:56 I mean, I think the the biggest kudos I could give to anybody is like, if we hired you and we've hired you, it's like to to do work.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:02 So like it's like we obviously believe in Ryan. So for the longest time I've called him Jeremy just it's perfect. It's kind of crazy if I ever call him Jeremy Weber. If I have him, it's because it's just like it's stuck in my head to say shameless plug.

Ryan Webber 00:43:15 Go to freaking Max law con 2025. There we go. You're welcome.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:18 Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that, but no, I I've given you this credit. I've talked about you, I the text I sent you. I do think like you. You've got a brilliant marketing mind, so I love it. So hire him if you if you got some legal work or not. Legal works. The marketing work that you need done.

Ryan Webber 00:43:34 Yeah, I can't do legal work, but.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:35 Definitely.

Ryan Webber 00:43:35 Will help with marketing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:36 Absolutely. Thanks for doing this, man.

Ryan Webber 00:43:37 Yeah, man.