Maximum Lawyer

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:11 All right, Carrie. So I want to start with, why do you think lawyers sound so, like, stiff and robotic on camera?

Kerry Barett 00:00:18 Have you met lawyers?

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:19 I have, that's one. Yes, yes.

Kerry Barett 00:00:21 Yeah. It's not a phenomena that's unique to those that are in the law practice. I see it across a lot of my clients, really. But part of the reason is that they live in the language of their expertise, which makes sense. I mean, they've gone to school, they've practiced for a number of years, and they are used to speaking in high stakes environments where the language is formal and perhaps even a little bit stiff. That same mindset goes to communicating on camera, and that that doesn't work generally as well on camera. Camera is really about having a conversation with your viewer and making sure that your viewer understands your viewer, your your ideal client. Right? Let's assume that's who the viewer is. doesn't understand the language of your expertise, and so it's very easy to fall into that.

Kerry Barett 00:01:11 I need to be formal. I need to be buttoned up. That's what I'm used to when I speak. And again, it just doesn't translate so well on the camera.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:18 Are there any easy tricks? Because some that I always, not always, sometimes before an episode I'll. And I didn't have to do this with you because you're a professional. But sometimes I'll have to tell someone that I'm. Maybe I'm concerned about that. That might be a little too stiff. I'll just, you know, remind them that this is a conversation and I'll tell them about, like, you know, don't have the podcast voice because sometimes you have, like, the podcast voice where you're like, you don't talk about like, the newscaster voice.

Kerry Barett 00:01:43 I used to have that voice.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:44 It's exactly nailed it. Yes. Are there any tricks to like to get them to to not do that? Because sometimes you'll tell them and they still will just be in that voice.

Kerry Barett 00:01:52 It's almost like it's just a trap that you fall into that because you feel comfortable and you feel like you're.

Kerry Barett 00:01:58 You've put on a bit of armor and that's how you deliver. I always advise people and you sort of alluded to this, that. When you're talking to the camera, you're always talking to an audience of one. And that person, whoever it is that you're talking to, whether it's a friend or it's an ideal client that you know and you like talking to. Imagine that that's the person you're having the conversation with. It's not perfect, and it takes practice. I think a big part of it as well is that there is a sense of nerves. It's an artificial environment, you know. I mean, if you look where we are right now, we're surrounded by lights and there's microphones and I'm being interviewed by a host and there's all these cameras, and I know you can't see all of them from from your vantage point, but it's an artificial environment and that creates that sense of formality, I guess. And and because of that artifice, it's easy to fall into putting on that armor or putting on that persona, if you will.

Kerry Barett 00:02:55 When I work with people, aside from advising them to always talk to one person, one of the things is that let's say they're creating a video. I will say, before you actually start speaking, create a little preamble in your mind. So one of the things, and I'll use a lot of news analogies, because I used to work in the news business and, you know, on air as an, as an anchor and a reporter. And one of the things that I used to do when I was reading a story, maybe for the 10th time that day, and I had to make it sound exciting, was I would start with, get this right in in the lawyers case. In my mind, I didn't say that on air in the lawyers case. Maybe it is, you know, hey, Brian or hey, you know, hey, Chris or whatever, whoever it is that you're talking to, create that preamble.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:37 And you're having this dialogue in your head, like, as.

Kerry Barett 00:03:40 Have all sorts of dialogues.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:41 And I'm sure I'm sure some of them we might want to keep secret. But but so you're, you're starting that like, you're kind of like thinking about who that person is and like starting that conversation.

Kerry Barett 00:03:50 Yeah. And one of the things if, if that is. And that can be a challenge. One of the things that I will tell my clients to do is actually verbalize that, like, hey Chris, this new thing happened with blah blah blah, xyz. And here's what it means, you know, for ABC. And then we'll just edit out the hey, Chris. But it gets them into that conversational flow. And then the rest of the communication or the message or whatever it is, tends to follow suit.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:18 What a cool idea. I really like that, that idea. Like so it's my understanding that used to be nervous on camera is that.

Kerry Barett 00:04:24 Oh my god.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:25 So like one of the, one of the things I tell my clients is whenever they're doing a depo or something is like just certain breathing techniques, like breathe through your nose, blow out through a straw, kind of a thing to kind of, you know, lower the heart rate.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:36 Is there anything like that that you do before you go on camera?

Kerry Barett 00:04:39 I am not nervous anymore. I have done hours and hours of live TV. I've made all the mistakes. There's no mistakes left for me to make. I make them daily, but I've experienced them all. When I first started, though. You're right. It was a wildly different story. I was I was terrible, and I was terrified. It's not a good combination, especially when your debut on TV is live news coverage. There's a couple of things that I used to do. So number one, I would keep a really cold bottle of water next to me. And in fact, I would, I would, it would be ice. I would keep it underneath the desk so nobody could see it. But if I felt myself getting flush or if I felt myself getting a little sweaty, if I was glowing, I would. I would hold that bottle of water in my hand under the desk. There's also a breathing technique called the 478.

Kerry Barett 00:05:26 I don't know if you may have heard of that.

Kerry Barett 00:05:28 But.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:28 I know box breathing, I don't know, I don't know 478.

Kerry Barett 00:05:31 So box breathing is breathe in for four. Hold for four. Breathe out for four. Hold for four. Right. It's sort of like a box for seven. Eight is you breathe in for four, you hold for seven, and you exhale for eight. The key is to exhale more than you're inhaling because that's what dials down your nervous system. So 478 is a great technique. If you find yourself in, you know, whether it is a virtual deposition or you're nervous on camera, you're creating video or whatever it is, that's a great way to sort of regulate your nervous system and dial things down a little bit.

Kerry Barett 00:06:05 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:06 So we were, Rémi and I were talking a while ago just about what it used to be like years ago when we started the podcast, people would they would start talking. They would, they would miss state something and they'd say, oh, I want to restate that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:19 And how that's kind of going away. It's like it's not a thing anymore. But I'm assuming when you're on live there, you can't do that, obviously, like you're going to and you're going to make mistakes. So how do you get through those mistakes without looking too bad?

Kerry Barett 00:06:33 Well, occasionally.

Kerry Barett 00:06:33 I looked really bad.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:36 Part of the part of the.

Kerry Barett 00:06:37 Part of the learning process. Yeah, it's.

Kerry Barett 00:06:39 Sink or swim. One of the greatest things about live TV. And that's where I learned how to do all of this stuff, is that no matter what comes your way, you've got to. The show must go on. You've got to dig your way out of it. And so whether I had a coughing fit or my co-anchor had to leave the set, or there was breaking news and I didn't have anything but three words of information that I had to fill, you know, 20 minutes with. In fact, interestingly enough, one time there was a fire drill at a station that I worked with and I worked at rather, and I was out on the scene at a, at a reporting and the the station had to evacuate.

Kerry Barett 00:07:17 And they're like, Carrie, can you fill? So I had to just stand outside and talk for like 25 minutes. I started talking to people around me. My point in relaying that story is that because it's live TV, you do have to dig your way out of whatever is in front of you. And that's why live video is one of the best ways to get really good on camera really quickly. It's terrifying for most people, but the key to moving through it is to recognize that you will absolutely come out on the other side. It probably won't be pretty when you're first learning how to do it. And that's that's perfectly fine. Address what went wrong. You know, in news language, we'd say, you know, if we messed up when we said, of course, I can't think of a of an example now, we'd say, you know something rather right. I correct the mistake and move on. So acknowledge it, correct it, don't make a big deal of it and move on to the next thing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you even address it. You just just kind of just move on.

Kerry Barett 00:08:16 I mean if I, if I said something really wrong, which I have on occasion accidentally, you know, we might have, may have let a curse word slip accidentally here or there, salt Lake City, you know, can we curse on this podcast?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:29 Yes you.

Kerry Barett 00:08:29 Can. I said Salt Lake City.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:32 That's all. The Salt Lake City is very beautiful. It is very, very good.

Speaker 6 00:08:36 I lived there for five years. I adored it.

Kerry Barett 00:08:38 But, you know, in a case of that, something like that. Absolutely. I apologized and I. But then I moved on. The more you stumble over it, the bigger deal you make of it, and the more people's attention is drawn to it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:50 It's like if you have a spot on your shirt from lunch, oh yeah, no one notices it until you say, hey, I got a spot on my shirt 100%.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:56 Now everyone notices you said something.

Kerry Barett 00:08:58 That's all they notice, right?

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:59 Yeah. Is there are there any tricks? I, I'm asking this question because this is about appearance on camera. Yeah. There was this conference I went to years ago. And like, their whole shtick was they would make you look good on camera. Yeah. And like, they had these little tricks where, like, they were like, put, like paper clips behind the the sleeves are there, are there things like that that you would do that maybe might help people?

Kerry Barett 00:09:21 Absolutely. So one of the things if you're watching this on video, I always say don't wear white. Of course I'm wearing white now.

Speaker 6 00:09:27 Of course, white.

Kerry Barett 00:09:27 Is a very dangerous color for me to wear because I have pets and kids, but I managed to not have a spot on my shirt today. So yeah, I always suggest avoid wearing white or black.

Speaker 6 00:09:37 So we're we're.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:37 We broke all the rules. Nice. Very good.

Speaker 6 00:09:40 Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:09:41 Avoid wearing white or black. Blue is a universally flattering color. It makes a lot of sense in the legal space as well, because it conveys trust and it conveys authority. Stability is a color blue represents, you know, those three characteristics. Yeah, you should always wear things that are tailored as well. So one of the tricks that we used to use in the news business, if something was a little boxy, we'd we'd put a clip on the back of it. If you're a gentleman and you're wearing a suit coat, you know, pulled the back of your suit down and sit on it, I'm working with a with a client right now. I'm doing a little bit of media training and he's not creating video, but he's doing media appearances. And like, you look a little sloppy. It's because your jacket's all rumbly. Just sit on it and it'll pull it down and it'll lay straight. And it's a more flattering look on camera.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:29 Where were you about eight hours ago? Because I was wearing my jacket.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:33 Yeah, I was a blue jacket, so. Yeah, but the shirt was white. I don't know if it counts, but. Yeah. And I, I kept having to, like, pull it down. Yeah, if I would just sat on the bottom of it. That would have been fun.

Kerry Barett 00:10:42 You should have booked me.

Speaker 6 00:10:42 Earlier today.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:43 Man. Geez, that's a great tip. What else you got? Those are. These are good.

Speaker 6 00:10:47 Tips.

Kerry Barett 00:10:47 Oh, what else do I have? Okay. one of the things that the camera does, and this is something I learned. In fact, I just did a post on LinkedIn about this. One of the things I learned early on in the news business, watching the aircheck, the tape of the recording of the newscast is that the camera eats consonants for lunch. So if you're not enunciating and I usually like, I still fall into that habit where I. I tend to get a little lazy with my speech. Things sound a little slurred.

Kerry Barett 00:11:16 I promise I'm not drinking. That can happen if you're dehydrated, but the camera, the microphone will eat consonants for lunch, so make sure that you're really punching through those consonants. It'll make your message more crisp and more clear, and you will sound more authoritative.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:31 I thought you nailed it. Yeah, you enunciate it right through that thing.

Speaker 6 00:11:35 There you go. I didn't.

Kerry Barett 00:11:36 Even draw attention to.

Speaker 6 00:11:37 It, did I? That's right, I did.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:41 So I want to hear about how you went from someone nervous to be on camera to then an Emmy Award winner. So how did that happen?

Kerry Barett 00:11:50 So I started out, and I was terrified. I mean, I don't mean. I don't mean just scared. Like I'm talking back of the room, puddle of my own vomit, maybe breathing into a paper bag, sort of scared. And that was something that has followed me through elementary school. Middle school, certainly high school. I started college as a pre veterinary medicine major. Loved animals.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:13 That's quite a difference from what you did.

Speaker 6 00:12:15 It's a hard one. 80. Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:12:17 I found out about a year and a half in that the one thing that disagreed with me more than public speaking was organic chemistry. And so I took a year and a half off. This is a bit of a rambly story, but I'm coming to a point. I will land the plane. I took a year and a half off. Still didn't know what it was that I wanted to do. And, you know, my friends were all like approaching graduation at this point. So I'm like, well, my school started this new communications program, and it was very broad. It was there was some PR, there was some marketing, there was some journalism, there was, you know, business, communication, etc. certainly I'll be able to do something here that will allow me to make a living. Number one. Number two, know organic chemistry. And number three, I think I recognized at some point that this fear I had of public speaking was going to be a hindrance, and I was going to have to take.

Speaker 6 00:13:12 To public speaking. Yeah, slightly.

Kerry Barett 00:13:14 I was going to have to take two public speaking courses. Now, one of the things I did when I re-enrolled was I was trying to make up for lost time. So 12 hours was a full time low, 12 credit hours. I was taking 24, and I wanted to figure out how to jam in another three, but I was in class Monday through Friday pretty much from like eight in the morning until six at night. And so I figured one of the ways that I could jam in three extra credit hours was to get an internship in an industry that doesn't operate on your regular 9 to 5. That's clever news, right? News operates 24/7 365. So I applied for an internship at wife was the NBC affiliate in Greenville, Spartanburg, South Carolina. I went to my undergrad at Clemson, and the first day out, I absolutely just fell in love with it, fell in love with the storytelling, fell in love with the adrenaline of it, fell in love with all of it.

Kerry Barett 00:14:12 And then I had to figure out how it was that I was going to overcome this fear, not just to the point where I. I was able to do the thing, but I was able to do it well enough that somebody was going to pay me to do it. And that sort of began the long process of overcoming it. And I will tell you, it wasn't until I was in my first job that I. In Wichita Falls, Texas, that I really began to get my arms around it. I learned on the job, and thank God there wasn't YouTube because it was pretty atrocious.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:42 Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, jeez, I mean, oh my gosh, like, think about some things that could have made it on video. It's like, oh my goodness, that's that'd be be awful. But when did you start to see those massive strides? And like, what did you do to to get better. Because I'm guessing at the beginning, like, like anything, when you're first a lawyer, you're not going to go to being a lawyer.

Tyson Mutrux 00:15:02 You're gonna get better at it. So how do you like where did you start to see the the strides?

Kerry Barett 00:15:06 So a couple of things. Number one, I had to do this every day. So when I work with, you know, my lawyer clients right now, I recognize this is not something they're probably going to be able to do every single day. But if you can open up your phone for 30s and just riff into it and then go back and watch and see what you didn't like, and then open your phone for 30s the next day and work on that particular thing. For me, it was doing it every single day and having to do it on live TV. And if you remember I said, you know, live, live video is one of the best ways to get really good really quickly. And where I saw, you know, the skills develop, then the confidence came and then I was willing to sort of try new things and push the envelope a little bit. And where it wasn't an epiphany moment, but where I, I think, recognised it was the first time that I had to deliver breaking news without my co-anchor.

Kerry Barett 00:16:02 And it wasn't pretty. But like I said, I got through it. I came out on the other side. I was able to deliver the information. It was about a brush fire and, you know, and I realized I can do this thing. And then when I realised that that was that was the thing that really created the change. And then I got then I got excited about what else I could try.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:25 Yeah, yeah. You really? I guess you realize that, you know, it's not that bad. It's. It's all good. You can get through it. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:16:32 Cool. It was very.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:32 Cool. So let's talk about some more about these lawyer videos. Yeah. What what do you what should people be talking about?

Kerry Barett 00:16:38 well, it depends on what their goals are. So generally speaking, there's a couple of goals that most attorneys have when they're thinking about creating, let's say social media video. A lot of them are on LinkedIn. They're on Instagram and they're on Facebook.

Kerry Barett 00:16:52 LinkedIn, though, has, you know, the latest statistic on leads generated from LinkedIn is that there are about 277% more leads generated on LinkedIn than Facebook. So if you're not on LinkedIn, you should be on LinkedIn. YouTube is also very underutilized. Generally, lawyers are using video for branding. They're using it to create visibility. Certainly they're using it to create referral opportunities and to generate clients. Right. Bring clients into awareness of them. Their videos don't follow a traditional sales funnel, right? Awareness certainly is at the top. Interest. Desire. Action. That's sort of your typical social media marketing funnel. Lawyers are more looking for demand generation, so staying top of mind their content is a little bit different. There's trust building content. There is authority building content. They are their story. So anonymized client case studies, if you will. Those kinds of videos play really well for attorneys on LinkedIn in terms of generating, again, referral opportunities and keeping yourself top of mind for clients.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:00 So are you recommending that they do all of those different things?

Kerry Barett 00:18:03 Not all.

Kerry Barett 00:18:03 Every day.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:05 Not all day, every day, but like, would you like, would you do all every week or every month?

Kerry Barett 00:18:09 No, you would hit. So let's I always say if you're not doing video now, the easiest way to get started is to plan for, let's say, one video a week. And so you're rotating through those videos. So it's authority generating video or building video. Rather it's credibility establishing video. Then it's maybe an again an anonymized client case study and then its story. Maybe it's your why or something that makes you different. What what is the differentiator. And so you're hitting those one at a time. If you're doing one video a week, you're running through that rotation. You know, you're hitting four of them and then you're doubling back and you're starting again the following month.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:51 What about like, personal stories? Would you would you mix in anything personal?

Kerry Barett 00:18:54 Absolutely. 100. And this is like one of the biggest battles that I have because a lot of times lawyers really are not.

Kerry Barett 00:19:01 And again, I don't mean to pick on lawyers. This is something that goes across the board with people in many different industries. Sharing things that are personal can be a little bit scary, but if there's something that and you don't want to share vulnerable stories just for the sake of being vulnerable, don't wear vulnerability as a marketing tactic. But if there's something that you can share that makes your clients trust you. Let's say you're in I don't know, you're in the bankruptcy space. Your clients really have to trust you. You're guiding them through.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:30 It's tough.

Kerry Barett 00:19:30 Time. Exactly. And so if you're able to share a story, whether it's a story that's personal about you or something you learned working with a client, there is absolutely a place for that. And I would say it's one of your strongest content types, especially with AI right now. Video is sort of one of the last bastions of authenticity. And for now, for now, for now, for now. And so using story to drive your message will sit with people longer.

Kerry Barett 00:20:03 It will resonate with people, and they'll establish trust and rapport with you through.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:06 It, although with AI. Back to that for a second. Like YouTube has put in some protections. Now we're just started, you know, yesterday where they're not monetizing any AI voices, because I do wonder if the other platforms are going to follow that suit, but I don't know. It's going to be an interesting thing.

Kerry Barett 00:20:23 There's there's there's a lot of AI slop out there for sure. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's tiresome. LinkedIn videos are not AI driven right now. There's a lot of comments and a lot of posts, text posts that are AI driven, which is, I think, why people at one of the reasons anyway, that people are hungering for real video right now.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:43 Absolutely.

Kerry Barett 00:20:44 Because it's you and it's it's authentic.

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:48 Do you do you have any idea recommendations on how long videos should be?

Kerry Barett 00:20:52 Roughly, yeah. So LinkedIn has a limit on its ten minutes as of now. And it's it's been 15 minutes sometimes and I don't know, as maybe as high as 20 minutes except for live video.

Kerry Barett 00:21:04 So their their limit is ten minutes. That's far longer than you want to be. The sweet spot for LinkedIn video is about 60s. I've done some videos that are 30 that have gotten, you know, millions of views. I've done some that are two minutes and 30s, which is significantly longer. Obviously, that have gotten millions of views. I've done some that are 60s that have flopped, but generally speaking, that's the sweet spot. If you're doing, you know, TikTok or Instagram or YouTube shorts, you're usually looking in the 15 to 30 second range. Obviously, longer form video on YouTube tutorials, etc. is going to be, you know, significantly longer than 15 to 30s.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:46 So I know that lawyers were always looking for formulas and things like that. Is there any sort of like formula that you should follow and when you're doing these videos? So let's say it's a 62nd LinkedIn video. Yeah. Like what's the like. Give me the the outline of what it should be.

Kerry Barett 00:22:00 Yep. Hook value CTA.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:02 It's pretty.

Kerry Barett 00:22:02 Easy.

Kerry Barett 00:22:03 Yeah. A lot of the advice that you'll see on LinkedIn is is not applicable to lawyers. And again, it's not because lawyers are following that traditional sales funnel. And what I mean by sales funnel is again awareness, interest, desire, action right there, taking some sort of action to work with you. You're not probably anticipating, well, maybe you are a divorce or a bankruptcy or whatever the case may be. You find yourself in that situation and then you're looking for legal help. So again, not following that traditional sales funnel. So a lot of the content on LinkedIn, the advice is not necessarily applicable to lawyers. You are still having a hook.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:40 This is hey, Brian.

Kerry Barett 00:22:42 Yeah. Hey, Brian. Exactly. Your hook is the thing that gets people's attention. It is the thing that will make them stop the scroll. So what is it that you're talking about that is applicable to that person that lets them know this piece of content is made? For me, it feels very personal.

Kerry Barett 00:23:01 The value is what comes next. So your hook is, you know, five to 10s and it's right out of the gate, right? You're not bobbling around with a hey, everybody just popped in, blah blah blah blah. You're you're hitting them hard, then you're moving into the value. So what is the one? Not five, not seven, not three. What is the one key takeaway? The thing that somebody needs to understand, do, recognize, think about whatever that is. That's the value. Right. And then your call to action, what is it that you want them to do at the end of this post? Do you want them to book a consultation with you? Do you want them to share the post? Do you want them to comment or tag somebody in it? So that's your your CTA, your call to action. And that's the general format for a video on LinkedIn and really a video on any platform.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:55 It's pretty I mean, it's pretty quick. I mean, are you I wonder what your thoughts are on things like Opus Clip? I don't know if you're familiar with that where like you're taking longer videos, repurposing them for short.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:05 I wonder since because it's kind of hard to follow that formula with things like that.

Kerry Barett 00:24:09 Oh, absolutely. If you're recording, for example, a podcast, and you're going to be cutting it up into small pieces, then yeah, it's I'm not giving you a hook here every, every second. You may ask a question and I'll have something that's particularly interesting to say at the top. And then I explain it a little bit further. I'm not at this point anyway, offering a call to action opus clip descript is another one if you're looking to create content from your podcasts. Absolutely. You can run it through Opus or Descript. There's a number of them out there. It's not going to be perfect, but if editing is your bottleneck, then that's a great option. I mean, a podcast is a fantastic way to create video content. It's, you know, a 30 or 60 minute podcast and you've got a month of content in front of you, and you can use it for all kinds of things, not just social media.

Kerry Barett 00:24:59 If you are looking for something that's a little more precise or pristine with your editing, then I suggest outsourcing. There's a lot of platforms that you can use to edit yourself that are not AI driven. cap cut is one of them. Although they have recently changed their terms of service, which is troublesome. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, but there's there's other platforms out there. I do a lot of my editing just on the editing app in my phone, you know, without using another platform. I trim off the front, I trim off the back, I run it through Sub Magic for captions. I happen to like that caption platform. I like the font. And then I upload it to to LinkedIn.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:36 I just saw something fun. So think of something you want to pitch on the podcast. Okay, so because I know you coach lawyers when it comes to video. So think about it. So think about what your hook's going to be and then what your value is going to be.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:48 And then your call to action and then we'll do is we'll cut this and this be one of the videos we put out. So think about what you want to do.

Kerry Barett 00:25:54 Oh my God.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:55 We're gonna put you on the spot. Yeah how about that. But would this to promote you though.

Kerry Barett 00:25:59 So yeah yeah yeah. All right. So hook value called action. You are putting me on the spot. My brain is fried. It's the end of the day.

Kerry Barett 00:26:06 Hey, Brian. Dare you! Hey, Brian. Get this.

Kerry Barett 00:26:11 I would say so. A good hook would be. Do I look drunk? Was not the feedback that I was looking for. That's my hook, right? Are you interested? I wasn't drunk, by the way. Just in case you were wondering. I realized as I was watching my aircheck back from my days in the news business, that the microphone was eating my consonants for lunch and I was slurring and I sounded not credible. I sounded not authoritative. Okay, let me think.

Kerry Barett 00:26:37 Not how I would phrase the rest of the post. One of the things you need to be aware of as you're creating video is to really punch those consonants. It will make you sound credible. It will make you sound clear. It will make you sound crisp if you. Here's my call to action. If you have questions or you're struggling with communicating effectively on camera. Book of video. Authority blueprint. Call with me. The link is in the comments.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:59 Love it. See you.

Kerry Barett 00:27:00 How about that?

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:00 Yeah, and all of that will be cut like. So you know that was coming. We'll be able to cut all of that. And then it's a video.

Kerry Barett 00:27:06 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:07 It's fantastic. It's and it's part of the longer video too.

Kerry Barett 00:27:10 So it makes for that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:11 You bet. Now that will help promote you. So that's that's fantastic. What would you say some of the mistakes are that people make attorneys make when it comes to being on video.

Kerry Barett 00:27:19 Oh my gosh. It's the mistake that everybody makes and it's lack of energy.

Kerry Barett 00:27:23 The camera, microphone, the lens, all of it is energetically flattening. What I mean by that is you've got hardware, you've got software. You're probably recording your video, maybe on your laptop on zoom, which you should not do. Always record on your phone. The audio is better. The video is better the.

Kerry Barett 00:27:41 Whole time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:42 With that one really quick. Yeah I use camo. Yeah. Camo app. Is there some other app that you recommend for using your laptop with your camera?

Kerry Barett 00:27:49 I, I.

Kerry Barett 00:27:50 Never use, I always just record on my phone. I use the camera app on my phone. You know, a lot of people record on like zoom, for example. Zoom's audio is very compressed. They don't have the bandwidth for everybody to use it. So the audio doesn't sound great if you're recording a podcast, that's important, right? It's important. Period. So I one of the easiest workarounds is just put your phone on a tripod and and shoot on your camera there.

Kerry Barett 00:28:13 Right. You've got 4K likely access to video and and that's broadcast quality. If it doesn't look broadcast quality, it's probably because you're framed poorly or the lighting is bad or your audio is bad, which are all easy fixes. Now, what was your original?

Kerry Barett 00:28:26 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:26 So the mistakes that attorneys make. I had three yeah three offers.

Kerry Barett 00:28:29 Yeah. No no.

Kerry Barett 00:28:30 No. So energetically flattening. So you've got you've got a microphone right. Quality is a little bit degraded as it goes through there. Your vocal variety. You've got a lens. It looks a little bit different through the lens than it does when you're in person. So that is a little bit energetically flattening. Then you've got the fact that you're sort of in this little box and there's no context right? For you or for the viewer. You can't see what the viewer is doing. The viewer can't see what's going on around you. And then you have the psychology that goes into speaking on camera. So without belaboring it. You view most people who are afraid of speaking, whether you're on a stage or they're in front of the lens.

Kerry Barett 00:29:13 View the audience as a predator. It goes back to our reptilian brains and the way that they're designed to keep us safe. And it's, you know, you might hear it referred to as the ego. It's the thing that wants to keep us small so that we don't make idiots of ourselves. And so when you are in front of the lens, or you're up on the stage when you're viewing the audience as a predator, the last thing that you want to do is make loud noises or big gestures. That's that's a sure death, right? Again, if we go back to our reptilian brain so we shrink, our vocal variety reduces, we tend to, you know, not use our hands. We sit stock still, our facial expressions, maybe we stare, you know, blankly into the camera or whatever it is if you think you're delivering with energy. And I know this was very painful lesson in the news business record 30s of video and go back and watch and see if the energy with which you thought you were delivering is actually what's coming through.

Kerry Barett 00:30:14 Nine times out of ten, it's not. Here's a way to get around that. If you imagine yourself at a noisy restaurant and let's say you're at a table of eight and you're down on one side and you're looking to talk to somebody who's clear at the other end on the other side, what are some of the things that you would do in order to make sure that person understood you over the din of the restaurant around you? You may lean forward when things are exciting. You project your voice a little bit more. You may use hand gestures to emphasize, you know, I did three things today. You know, you hold up three fingers. Conceptually, that's exactly what you want to do when you're on camera. Now there is some nuance because it's camera. Being on camera can be like an intimate environment as well, because it's just you and the person who's watching you, really. But conceptually, that's exactly what you want to do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:03 I was I can't wait to watch back the beginning of this episode, okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:07 Because I had a stressful call before the mosquito and I was I was very frustrated. You know, and I really do wonder what my energy was like. So in a situation like that, and I don't know if my energy was good or bad, I'm assuming it was bad, but I tried to make it good. Yeah. So let's say that. So you're on the other side. You you clearly have great energy. How do you combat. Probably not the right word. How do you balance whatever the person that you're on the show with or on the camera with has got low energy. And you you want to bring up the energy, right?

Kerry Barett 00:31:40 So I never I hesitate to say bring yourself down. That's not what I mean. But you need to be authentically you. And if you have a lot of energy, that's what you need to bring, right? I usually try when I host a podcast, I usually try and prep my guests. I go through that explanation with them. Sometimes they need a little bit of media training prior, but I walk them through this.

Kerry Barett 00:32:03 This is what the camera's going to do. This is why it does it briefly, and here's how you overcome it. So, you know, there's nerves that most people need to work through. But I find as the conversation goes on, it gets a little bit easier. My, you know, this is very conversational.

Kerry Barett 00:32:20 Sure.

Kerry Barett 00:32:20 I didn't think you had bad energy, by the way.

Tyson Mutrux 00:32:22 Well, good. I'm glad. That's good. That's good. That's makes me feel better.

Kerry Barett 00:32:25 But I think also it's a little bit of rapport building. So, you know, if you're having a conversation with your guest or you're having a conversation with your host prior to turning on the camera and starting to record, you have a have a lighthearted conversation, something that brings the energy in the room up. At the end of the day, you could royally screw things up and you're going to be fine, right? You're going to be fine. Like I have. I have a couple of Emmys on my shelf.

Kerry Barett 00:32:55 They were not perfect shows. I was not perfect in them. And I screwed up royally more times than I can count. But it never affected my ability to get a job. It's not going to affect your abilities as a lawyer either, so recognize that it feels very high stakes and it's important for you to sound authoritative and credible. But one mistake is not going to damage you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:19 So I'm a little envious of you because you are. You use your hands really well. Yeah, I feel like. And I just tried to. And I just hit the hit the stand.

Kerry Barett 00:33:27 You.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:27 Know. So. And I've, I've heard that using your hands. Like keeping them, like, invisible. Yeah. The camera is really important. Yeah. So how do you do that without hitting the microphone stand? Like, you were very like. One of the things that's really important about hands is the way you use them. I'll intentionally use them because like you use use three. Yeah. I can't remember how you put it up, but yeah, I got something wrong with my pinky.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:48 So I use three this way because it's just easier for me doing this. harder for me.

Kerry Barett 00:33:52 It's hard. That's why it's like you gave me the finger.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:53 It's like I can't do it. It's hard. Right? So you do this, right? But, like, instead of, like you, you're consistent with your like. So you say three, you put up three. Yeah. And that's so. Matching the words to the hands or hand gestures is really important. So how I guess what. Do you have any tips when it comes to using your hands effectively.

Kerry Barett 00:34:10 Yeah. So as long as you're not. Have you ever seen that scene from Talladega?

Kerry Barett 00:34:14 I was like, I'm just doing this.

Speaker 7 00:34:16 What to do with my hands?

Kerry Barett 00:34:18 Exactly, yes.

Kerry Barett 00:34:18 As long as your hands are underscoring what it is that you're saying, don't overthink it. I have a client who who had a series of videos he was recording. This is one of the things that he overthought. Use your hands as you would in regular communication, but make sure that you're underscoring whatever it is that you're going to say.

Kerry Barett 00:34:39 And it doesn't mean there's a specific hand gesture. That's right. If you're talking about this, you need to do this thing. And if you're doing this, you need to do this thing. But I've learned over my time again in the news industry that even when I'm feeling not as energetic as I need to. Adding a little bit of body movement into the shot makes creates a more dynamic visual, and so it can minimize some of the other energetic challenges that you may be having.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:08 Give me an example of what you mean by that. The bottom.

Kerry Barett 00:35:09 Moment you.

Kerry Barett 00:35:10 See my.

Kerry Barett 00:35:10 Hands.

Kerry Barett 00:35:11 Right leaning forward, you know, moving my head around, addressing the camera rather than just sitting very static and stoically. If you are having an issue with energy or you're feeling particularly tired that day, having that stoic, static stance there, how's that for alliteration? Will emphasize that. So adding some right. It's the same as it's not exactly the same, but it's like creating more edits or more cuts.

Kerry Barett 00:35:39 When you're editing, you're creating a more dynamic feel by being able to use your hands or editing or whatever it is that you're doing. So anyway, to answer your question. I've gotten used to using my hands because I use them so often. When I spoke on the news for the very same reasons, right? I anchored a lot of morning TV. It was exhausting, I was exhausted, I used my hands to try and help create energy within the frame. So practice. If you feel like you don't know how you normally use your hands and so you're overthinking it, what I would do is set up your phone, your camera on a little tripod in the corner of your room and have a conversation with, you know, your spouse or your partner, whatever it is. Give it a while to get into the flow of things, and then go back and watch how you're actually using them. I know it sounds like a laborious process, and it is a little bit, but if you're overthinking how to use your hands, it's one of the easiest ways to recognize how you naturally use them.

Kerry Barett 00:36:36 And then really speaking on camera is is just about emulating your your natural communication, but a little bit amplified.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:44 Yeah. So okay so here we got three cameras right. Yep. You got which is great I love these cameras because it's got the different lights. And so I know this one's live which is great. Remy's got a great studio. So if you're ever in New York City, look up Remi.

Kerry Barett 00:36:56 He's nice.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:56 He's fantastic. Yeah, really really good. But when it when it comes to that, like, obviously you can see your hands. Right. Because they're so far away. Right. When you are recording your own videos, let's say you're using your iPhone. Yeah. How far away should that be? Because I noticed sometimes whenever I'm doing some some interviews, podcast interviews with the Riverside, like I feel like I can't get my hands up high enough so they're visible so I don't put them up high up. Yeah. So what are your thoughts like? What are your suggestions when it comes to that?

Kerry Barett 00:37:23 Okay.

Kerry Barett 00:37:23 So if you are doing something for example like on Riverside, use your hands. If you're not, use them. Even if they're out of out of frame. It's okay to do that. If you're recording a video, let's say for LinkedIn and you should be recording LinkedIn vertical like this, not like this, right? This is the video feed. So record up and down. And generally speaking, you want to have minimal headroom. So not a lot of room between the body, the top of your head and the bottom of the screen, and probably to about waist length. So the.

Kerry Barett 00:37:57 Ish.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:57 So you're back a little bit then it's.

Kerry Barett 00:37:59 Not back a little bit. Yeah I would.

Kerry Barett 00:38:01 Say, you know, generally speaking when I'm recording a video in that particular format, I'm probably about two feet away from my from my phone. Now. I put it on a tripod. I tilt the tripod forward a little bit. It's a more flattering shot. So I put the back leg up on a book.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:18 Okay, so like like this towards you like this?

Kerry Barett 00:38:21 Like. Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:38:22 Like just slightly.

Kerry Barett 00:38:24 Oh, interesting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:25 Like not backwards but towards you. Yeah. Okay.

Kerry Barett 00:38:27 Interesting. Upside down but.

Kerry Barett 00:38:28 Like so at I'll try and show. Whoops. Now I'm hitting the microphone.

Kerry Barett 00:38:32 It's contagious I broke you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:34 Sorry.

Kerry Barett 00:38:34 So so up like this. So at eye level here's my camera eye level or slightly above and just slightly tilted forward. That way you get a more flattering shot and you're able to create video in a vertical format without any closer than that, and you're sort of like a disembodied head floating there.

Kerry Barett 00:38:53 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:53 Yeah. And I've also heard that, like, so, just slightly above eye level.

Kerry Barett 00:38:56 Yeah. Yeah. Slightly above eye. Absolutely.

Kerry Barett 00:38:58 Right. At eye level or slightly above. You don't have to, you know, do an influencer selfie.

Kerry Barett 00:39:03 Where your camera is like way up here. But yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:39:05 At eye level or slightly above is the most flattering.

Kerry Barett 00:39:08 Shot.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:08 So is it fair to say that you can if you can touch the camera, you're too close?

Kerry Barett 00:39:12 No.

Kerry Barett 00:39:12 Not necessarily. No. I I'm about to two feet away from my camera when I shoot. Again, I have it on a tripod. I have the back leg propped up a little bit. And, you know, I've got lighting all around me, but no, that's about that's a that's a good frame of reference about two feet away.

Kerry Barett 00:39:28 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:29 When I talk to you about or ask you about building trust on camera. Yeah. I always think about this whenever I talk about things like this, I think about this chiropractor friend of mine, and he flew down to Florida, and he's not a he's not a guy that wears the white jacket, but he the, the the video company insisted that he wear the white doctor's coat. Right. And he's got he. He had to be on camera with the white doctor's coat. So I wonder, like, do we are we supposed to wear suits on camera? Like what? Like how do we build trust? Give me give me some some pointers on that.

Kerry Barett 00:39:59 Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:39:59 So I was if you're talking specifically about what to wear you you meet your audience where they are and slightly elevated. So for an attorney again it depends a little bit on who his particular clientele is. And and to some degree, who is referral partners or her referral partners might be as well. But where your audience is slightly elevated, you don't need to wear a suit. You don't need to wear a tie. Plenty of attorneys that I see that are wildly successful on LinkedIn and creating video, who show up in t shirts that may not be your jam. You should wear whatever you feel comfortable with. But generally speaking, if your audience is watching you, you know they're doom scrolling at 3 a.m. because they have a legal issue that's keeping them up in a panic every night. You don't want to come across as somebody who's stiff and formal. What are they wearing there? They might be in their pajamas. So maybe you're wearing a button down shirt. Something along those lines. Think about meeting them where they are and then slightly elevated.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:53 All right. So let's talk about non-appearance. Let's talk about building trust that way. So one of the one of the things I intentionally brought up was the fact that you're an Emmy Award winner. Right. So it shows that authority. What are some ways that especially I mean, I was able to do that because I was able to ask you lead, lead that, lead you with that. But I mean, if you were to brought it up, it might have I mean, it could have been you probably would have found a great way of doing it. But I think if I would have tried to do something like that, it would sound like I was bragging. Yeah, yeah. So how do you build authority? How do you build trust? Other than, like, the what you wear, right?

Kerry Barett 00:41:26 Right, right. Well, it's definitely not saying things like, I'm humbled and honored.

Kerry Barett 00:41:30 To announce that I see.

Kerry Barett 00:41:32 A.

Kerry Barett 00:41:32 Lot.

Kerry Barett 00:41:33 Of that on LinkedIn. And that is not.

Kerry Barett 00:41:35 A good idea. It's not a good look. Give me a second. Do you do a lot of those posts? No I don't. No way. No, no, it's.

Kerry Barett 00:41:43 Definitely not that. And it's not necessarily, you know, bragging about a client outcome or a certain thing that you've done. It is about presenting yourself as an authentic person. It is about highlighting your expertise. It's about highlighting your credibility and driving a lot of that through story. That way, you can share real takeaways for your audience that show why you do things a certain way, or what makes you different as a again. Let's use the bankruptcy attorney as an example from another person who does the same thing. What is the differentiator? All of those elements combined will be the trust builders. It's not about doing one post and hoping that that does everything it needs to to build trust. But it's about establishing a clear, consistent message that underscores that every single time. And that has to do with your messaging. It has to do with the way that you deliver.

Kerry Barett 00:42:43 Are you looking directly into the camera? Are you establishing eye contact with the audience? Are you delivering in a way that doesn't sound timid or awkward or unsure? It's about all of those things combined.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:55 So you mentioned something about like posting about like, wins or whatever, and I something that drives me nuts. Yeah, I'm a personal injury attorney, so I got a lot of personal injury attorney friends. And there's a few that will just post like their settlements and stuff like that in verdicts. And to me, like, it's interesting the way I view it too, because like if it's like if it's a criminal defense attorney that gets an acquittal for a client, it's usually them posting it and like how happy they are for their client kind of a thing. Whenever it's my injury attorney friends, they'll post like some verdict or settlement. And it's it totally sounds like they're bragging. Yeah. And it drives me nuts. And I'm thinking maybe it's just because I'm an injury attorney. But you. What you just said makes me think that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:36 No, it's not just me. It just sounds like they're bragging and they don't. Yeah, it's like you're just talking about yourself and not about what you can do for the client 100%.

Kerry Barett 00:43:44 There is a lot of content. And again, I'm not picking on attorneys. This happens across the board. There is a lot of content out there that speaks about the person who's posting it. Right? I did this, I won that. I'd rather than looking at it through the lens of the person that you are helping or the client that you you're helping and or the referral partner that you're looking to get in front of what makes you referable. So it's driving that through story and message and confidence on camera, delivering and understanding what those buckets are that build that trust and build that credibility and build that authority.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:23 One of the things that I've heard, I'm a shift gears a little bit when it comes to like, shorts, because we've talked a lot about like LinkedIn, YouTube shorts. Yeah, like TikTok and stuff.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:31 I've always heard that it's you use those to drive them back to like the longer form videos on YouTube and all that. Is that still the case or is that shifting? Because I'm always wondering about is is there a return on investment when it comes to the short videos? Because we've never really been able to tie okay, these shorts are leading to these clients. Yeah, but we can indirectly kind of tie them to the longer videos like, well, because they'll remember watching some video that they saw on YouTube. Not necessarily short. So I wonder what your thoughts is. Is it. Is that still the same strategy or is it different?

Kerry Barett 00:45:04 Well, it's interesting you mentioned that I have a client who just started not just we've been working together for about three months now and has seen a 4,009% increase on their website traffic. The only thing that they've done different is they started posting videos. They are not on YouTube, for example. They are posting mostly on Instagram and on LinkedIn.

Kerry Barett 00:45:24 Oh, interesting.

Kerry Barett 00:45:25 And their their call to action is.

Kerry Barett 00:45:28 Is to send them to the website. Not always, but often. And so that's where that traffic is coming from. There is still a way to create a funnel from a shorter type video that's designed for discoverability. So a lot of times those shorter videos are the things that bring you into awareness of your client, your referral partner, whoever it is. Right. So they're scrolling. They're looking for something. The algorithm has brought them to you and they've discovered you that way. Now, how do you establish additional trust that is done usually through longer form content. So podcasts, media appearances, blogs and YouTube tutorials. And so there's absolutely a way to drive from discoverability to trust building content, which some of your discoverability content is also trust building content, but it moves into the longer form content to really establish that trust and create rapport with.

Kerry Barett 00:46:26 With.

Kerry Barett 00:46:27 With the client.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:28 Do you think law firm owners should have a podcast? I do podcast.

Kerry Barett 00:46:32 Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a wildly underutilized method of building a brand, positioning yourself as an authority, and generating referral opportunities.

Kerry Barett 00:46:43 Are you necessary? I mean, you may be speaking to clients through a podcast, but you're going to be creating a lot of referral opportunities for yourself, especially.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:52 Yeah. So would it be. Would that be sort of the angle is more of a referral based.

Kerry Barett 00:46:56 For a podcast? You mean specifically? I mean, listen, you could there's a podcast for everything if you want to talk about bankruptcy and.

Kerry Barett 00:47:02 You want.

Kerry Barett 00:47:04 I mean, really there's a lot of bizarre niches. If you want to create a podcast that's designed to talk to specifically to clients who are going through bankruptcy issues. Absolutely. You could create that. And and I have clients who do have podcasts that are designed to generate, you know, client interest. However, if you are creating a podcast and you're I mean, it really depends on who you're looking to talk to. I guess at the end of the day is what it comes down to. Are you looking to create a podcast for clients directly, or are you looking to make yourself top of mind with your peers to create legal opportunities right through through referral partnerships? Depends on who your audience is.

Kerry Barett 00:47:46 And and I do think there is there is room in content creation to talk to two audiences. It's a little bit harder when you're doing a podcast, especially if you're having guests, but there is room to do both.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:00 Yeah, that always is kind of a struggle, especially with people who have like newsletters, you know, like they have one for attorneys and one for their clients. It's kind of hard to do both. But I mean, it's possible, but it's pretty tough.

Kerry Barett 00:48:09 Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:10 I want to ask you about authenticity and how are there ways are there little tricks to to be more authentic on camera?

Kerry Barett 00:48:17 Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:48:18 Well, it goes back to sort of that armor that we talked about putting on at the beginning of this podcast. And when you get in front of the camera, there's a tendency to move into character, if you will.

Kerry Barett 00:48:28 Right.

Kerry Barett 00:48:28 You're you've put on your lawyer coat, your, your, your uniform or your costume or whatever it is that you want to call it. And I had one too, when I was in the news business.

Kerry Barett 00:48:37 You know, it was that little microphone that had the flag on it that told you what network I worked for. That was my costume. And but it puts us in the mindset of trying to be something that doesn't necessarily translate to who with who we or resonate with who we are as people. Authenticity is one of those words that is bandied about, and people have become super stressed out about how do I be authentic? There is nothing more simple than authenticity. Authenticity is being who you are at all times in front of all people with some polish. I would maybe not all of who you are in front of all of your audiences. But that's all authenticity is. It's being yourself and behind a closed door and, you know, in front of it. It's that simple. There's really nothing else to it. So if you talk a certain way and you do a certain thing, you know, again, maybe with a little bit of polish, but that's who you are on camera. It's it's honestly that simple.

Kerry Barett 00:49:39 We've made it very we've made.

Kerry Barett 00:49:41 It.

Kerry Barett 00:49:41 So complex.

Tyson Mutrux 00:49:42 Yeah. So I've got a couple quotes like one from you, and perfect action beats, perfect planning when it comes to video. And then you talk about people who don't connect connect with perfect. They connect with presence. Yeah. Which I think I think that's important, I guess. How do you build the is it just is as simple as just being consistent posting. Is that what it is?

Kerry Barett 00:50:01 I mean, there's a little more to it. You could be consistently awful and I wouldn't suggest doing that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:06 But that's fair.

Kerry Barett 00:50:08 Okay.

Kerry Barett 00:50:09 So there is an interesting mindset that I find that lawyers especially bring to the idea of content creation. And it goes back to, again, something that we spoke about at the beginning of the podcast, which is if you're living in the language of their expertise, they've trained for years and years and years to do this particular thing. And in that world, one typo in a document renders the entire document null and void, right? And that same mindset is oftentimes brought to getting in front of the camera.

Kerry Barett 00:50:35 You will never, ever be perfect. It's just a fact of life, right? You're on video. You're making a weird face. Somebody screenshot. It's just how it's just how it is. But when you are posting or at least recording consistently, even if you haven't brought yourself to the point where you're publishing content, what I always suggest in order to consistently get better is something I call the 30 and 30 Day Challenge, and it is. Open up your phone right again, I'll grab my phone saying, here's my couch.

Kerry Barett 00:51:11 Oh thank you, right.

Kerry Barett 00:51:12 Thank you, thank you. Record on this side. So if you're listening to this podcast, you want to record on the camera that is not with the screen record on the camera. That's your front facing. Is this your front facing.

Kerry Barett 00:51:24 Camera.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:24 That I don't know if that's I don't know.

Kerry Barett 00:51:27 The.

Kerry Barett 00:51:28 One. That's where.

Kerry Barett 00:51:29 You can't.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:29 I think that is the front facing.

Kerry Barett 00:51:30 Camera where.

Kerry Barett 00:51:31 You can't see yourself. That's the OG.

Kerry Barett 00:51:32 That's the one that they advertise. And that way you don't get distracted looking at yourself in the monitor, and you're using the best camera and riff on something for 30s. So it could be it doesn't have to be about work. You're trying a great new restaurant. You are excited about your kitchen, Reno, I don't know, whatever it is, riff about it for 30s and then go back and watch and pick one thing that you want to work on. Maybe it's eye contact, maybe it's energy, maybe it's reducing ums and Oz, whatever the thing is, and then work on that for 30s each day until you you won't have it perfected. But maybe you have your arms sort of getting around it and then pick the next thing to work on. So maybe the next thing is eye contact. So then work on that until you kind of have your arms around that, and then do that for 30 days and look at the difference between day one and day 30. And you will see, I promise you, you will see a change.

Kerry Barett 00:52:27 And once you have recognized that, you can make positive change in your ability to create video and be comfortable on camera, then the confidence starts to build. And that's how you go about making the real change. So it's not just about posting consistently, but it is about doing the thing consistently. And that's a place to anything, you know, whatever it is, right? Doing the thing consistently and working at it to get better.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:53 I'm gonna focus on using my hands more.

Kerry Barett 00:52:55 There you go.

Tyson Mutrux 00:52:55 And then, yeah, how do you get rid of it? I just said, how do you get rid of the ums? And the.

Kerry Barett 00:53:00 R's.

Kerry Barett 00:53:00 Totally contagious.

Kerry Barett 00:53:01 I find every, every time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:03 I was going to ask you about it, I said, oh, I.

Kerry Barett 00:53:05 Just I know I find that every.

Kerry Barett 00:53:07 Time.

Kerry Barett 00:53:07 I.

Kerry Barett 00:53:07 Talk to a client about reducing ums and they start to come out of my own mouth again, It's contagious.

Kerry Barett 00:53:13 I almost said.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:13 You all said here. Yes, I was waiting on it.

Kerry Barett 00:53:15 Yeah.

Kerry Barett 00:53:15 Okay, but did you notice what I did there?

Kerry Barett 00:53:17 I paused and.

Kerry Barett 00:53:18 I swallowed it back. And that's what you have to do. There is a process. It takes practice. Again, one of the things that's beneficial is record yourself having a conversation. If you're doing a zoom call, record yourself on zoom. It's oftentimes the default setting on zoom. And go back and watch. Not necessarily with the purpose of reviewing the entire call, but seeing when those ums and odds pop up. Are they? When you are ad libbing or riffing about something that you don't necessarily feel as knowledgeable about something else? Is it when you are reading more of a script? You know, oh my God, I almost.

Kerry Barett 00:53:56 Said it again.

Tyson Mutrux 00:53:57 You almost did.

Kerry Barett 00:53:57 It. Yes, but I paused.

Kerry Barett 00:53:58 So get familiar with where you're most likely to use an, and and then the next thing to do is create. I like to create a bit of.

Kerry Barett 00:54:09 A.

Kerry Barett 00:54:10 Almost a physical sensation. So if you feel like you're going to say, Amara, tap your leg a couple of times.

Kerry Barett 00:54:17 Or.

Kerry Barett 00:54:17 Or adjust your body, look away from the camera, gather your thoughts and look back at the camera and move on from there. And then once you create that physical sensation, you become more aware of when and how often you are using those filler words. And then when you feel one. And this comes with extreme awareness when I mess it up too. But when you feel one beginning to emerge, you can't unring the bell. So don't ring it to begin with. Suck it back in and give yourself a second to compose and then move on.

Tyson Mutrux 00:54:51 This is going to be. So I'm going to focus on this to make sure I don't do.

Kerry Barett 00:54:55 It.

Tyson Mutrux 00:54:56 I and and so I will I will not do it. You know I do I use so almost as, as a replacement for sometimes. Yeah. And I need to I need to do better, do a better job of that.

Kerry Barett 00:55:06 Do you start your sentences with.

Kerry Barett 00:55:08 So so sometimes.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:09 I do sometimes. Yeah. And that or I'll use the word thing sometimes a little too much.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:14 And these are all ums to me I think.

Kerry Barett 00:55:17 So how would you think.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:18 I'll just I'll call something a thing instead of calling it what it is.

Kerry Barett 00:55:21 Oh, okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:21 Got it. Which is, that was pointed out to me by a friend of mine who listens to the show, and he's like, you gotta stop using things so much. And then I paid attention. I was like, I'm using thing way too much. Which is which is really it can be really tough to hear yourself. Yeah, sometimes. Which is which can be frustrating. I lost my complete point. I was going to ask you about something completely different, and I've I've I've forgotten what I mean.

Kerry Barett 00:55:43 Okay. We talked about.

Kerry Barett 00:55:44 Your your flaws.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:45 Exactly. Right.

Kerry Barett 00:55:46 It's it's it's a focus on flaws.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:48 I do want to hear about the visibility workshops that you're doing. What are those.

Kerry Barett 00:55:53 Okay. So the visible when you say visibility.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:55 Yeah. So I've got some notes that you had you have some visibility.

Tyson Mutrux 00:55:58 You do workshops that help attorneys when it comes to their videos and all that.

Kerry Barett 00:56:02 Okay. I know what you're talking about. Very good.

Kerry Barett 00:56:03 Excellent. I do do a live stream on LinkedIn every every Wednesday, normally at 7 p.m. eastern, where I go through tips, tricks, tactics, strategies for creating video and getting better on camera. My signature program is something called the Video Authority Blueprint, and that's a 12 session, three months ish program that I walk mostly solo attorneys. Oh my gosh, I just said it.

Kerry Barett 00:56:31 Did you see it? Oh my gosh I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:33 Didn't swallow it.

Kerry Barett 00:56:33 Yes, yes okay. Can we edit that out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:56:36 No way. No no way in hell.

Kerry Barett 00:56:39 I walk them through this three month program that takes them basically soup to nuts for creating video. It teaches them how to become their own video marketing agency. So everything from gear and lighting and set up and camera shot through content creation and your pillars, through messaging and speaking effectively on camera and editing and creating a content Calendar and distribution and it walks them through all of that.

Kerry Barett 00:57:06 I also am hosting a monthly webinar where I am teaching people the framework for creating effective video, and I just started hosting that. But oh my God, I did it again. It is contagious.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:23 Before I remember what I was going to ask you. But before I get to that though, yes, I'll tease it.

Kerry Barett 00:57:30 oh my God, this is this is like going straight down the crapper.

Tyson Mutrux 00:57:35 What? How do people get that? Do you have a domain name? People can go to a website. People can go.

Kerry Barett 00:57:40 To, I.

Kerry Barett 00:57:40 Do. So my website right now is going through a bit of a revamp. It's Cory Barrett. Com I would suggest going to my LinkedIn profile. You can sign up for a free consult call. You can sign up for the webinar there. You can get all the information about the live streams as well, along with posting daily content and tips about speaking on camera and creating videos. So LinkedIn right now anyway, as of this recording is the place to find me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:05 And it's Carrie with a K, just.

Kerry Barett 00:58:07 Like Carrie with a.

Kerry Barett 00:58:07 K k e r or why? Yep, not Stephanie.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:10 What are your. No, not at all. It's, I, I introduced myself to Stephanie here at the beginning.

Kerry Barett 00:58:15 And I answered to it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:16 You did. And no, you didn't. You did correct me, which I was.

Kerry Barett 00:58:19 I I've been called worse.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:21 Back and luckily stepped in and said, that's not Stephanie. That was earlier today, which was it was one of those days.

Kerry Barett 00:58:26 It's a good day.

Tyson Mutrux 00:58:27 Yes. I would ask you about teleprompters. Yeah, because I have recently started using them. I was not super comfortable at first, but I've gotten way more comfortable. Yeah. Do you have any any strong opinions one way or the other?

Kerry Barett 00:58:38 Oh, I.

Kerry Barett 00:58:39 I love a good teleprompter. One of the things that is there's two things that it really helps with. It helps with editing. Because if you can do a video in one take, there is a lot less work on the back end.

Kerry Barett 00:58:53 So much.

Kerry Barett 00:58:53 Oh my gosh, it's a you will cut your your process in half in terms of time. The other thing that's great about a teleprompter is that it really allows you to be concise. If you're trying to create a 30 or 60 second video that you're going to be using on any, any platform, LinkedIn or YouTube, whatever, it allows you to make sure that you're not going off on a tangent, that you're not using ums and ahs. It's very, very clear there are challenges. I have a free.

Kerry Barett 00:59:22 oh.

Kerry Barett 00:59:22 My God, I'm actually I'm not swallowing them at all. What is going on?

Tyson Mutrux 00:59:29 I just love it. We're going to clip this for all your all your clients.

Kerry Barett 00:59:32 Please do. Please do.

Kerry Barett 00:59:34 The thing is about the teleprompter. Now I have to get back to where I was. Oh, there is a there is a challenge with speaking conversationally, using a teleprompter. That's what the mini course is. What I learned during my time as a as a broadcaster, which we use.

Kerry Barett 00:59:51 Teleprompters, aside from breaking news, is pretty much the the entirety of the news program is that when we speak, we speak in thoughts generally rather than complete sentences. One of the biggest challenges that goes along with being able to deliver conversationally is the way that we write for the teleprompter. So it is not a virtual white paper, it is not reading newspaper script. If you try to read pick up a newspaper. Do they have online? Online?

Tyson Mutrux 01:00:25 They still exist.

Speaker 7 01:00:26 Pick up a paper.

Kerry Barett 01:00:27 And.

Speaker 7 01:00:27 Open it up. Top a fold.

Kerry Barett 01:00:29 No, you are delivering on camera in a way that is entirely different and the writing is part of it, I call it. It is writing for broadcast. It's writing for the ear versus writing for the eye. And it's an entirely different type of writing. If you are able to write for the ear, it will be much easier for you to deliver in a conversational way. I also like to mark my scripts, and I advise my clients to do the same until they get comfortable with reading from a teleprompter.

Kerry Barett 01:00:55 So what that means is, for example, if there is a word that you want to emphasize, put asterisks around it so that that actually comes up in the teleprompter. And even if your brain is turned off and you're freaking out, you know that you're supposed to emphasize that particular word. If you are, for example, listing items. The three things I learned in yoga one, two, three put in ellipses between those items so that, you know, you should take a brief pause there. The other thing is that you want to keep your sentences short, sharp, and concise. That usually means if you have more than one, and in a sentence, you have two sentences, and it'll be easier for you to deliver in a conversational way. If you take those writing examples into effect, put them into effect.

Tyson Mutrux 01:01:42 Sometimes I'll have to mark in there that there is a difficult sentence coming up, because sometimes it's something I will need to say, but the alliteration of it can be tough to get through.

Tyson Mutrux 01:01:56 And to give myself a warning, I'll have to like Mark in there. I'll use an emoji or something like that just to kind of, hey, it's coming. Be ready for it. Because if I don't, or sometimes I'll put the emphasis on the wrong word and just on.

Kerry Barett 01:02:09 Occasion put.

Kerry Barett 01:02:10 The emphasis on.

Kerry Barett 01:02:10 The wrong syllable. Exactly.

Tyson Mutrux 01:02:12 I could, you know, I could you could ask me to do that ten times in a row and I would not be able to get I'd be zero for ten. That'd be just like, I don't know how you just did that, but I would not be able to. But are there any other tips like that for using teleprompters, though?

Kerry Barett 01:02:26 Oh gosh.

Kerry Barett 01:02:26 There's a there's.

Kerry Barett 01:02:27 A million of them. I like to. I like to do something I call emotion mapping, which is if there is a specific sentence that requires a certain type of emotion, I will put an emoji there a smiley face, a frowny face, whatever it is, so that I know that this particular sentence there's there's a beat.

Kerry Barett 01:02:44 Maybe the emotion is taking a turn, and I need to take that into account when I am reading. You also mentioned something that I think is really important, which is if there is an element that's going to be a little bit tricky for you to deliver, maybe there's a bit of a tongue twister there, or there's a certain alliteration that is hard. Read your scripts out loud. Don't read them in your head. Read them out loud. That is, generally speaking, the only way that you'll find those little sticky spots and be able to practice going through them.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:14 You take the extra few minutes.

Kerry Barett 01:03:16 Absolutely. Do it. Yep.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:18 So let's.

Kerry Barett 01:03:18 Say.

Kerry Barett 01:03:18 Don't don't whisper. Actually, read it out loud the way that you would read it on camera.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:23 I like that because I probably, I probably.

Kerry Barett 01:03:24 Would probably.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:25 Whisper. Yeah. So okay, I'll do that. Let's end on what is what is give me like your one big tip that you've not you've not not mentioned, but it comes to a video either tip or one pet peeve that you have that attorneys do that you got to stop doing.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:38 Like what's what's one big takeaway for attorneys that want to do video?

Kerry Barett 01:03:43 One big takeaway for attorneys who want to do video is, gosh, there's there's a lot. Like energy is one of the things that I always suggest, but we've talked about that.

Kerry Barett 01:03:53 You've made.

Kerry Barett 01:03:53 It so that I can't mention.

Kerry Barett 01:03:54 That again.

Tyson Mutrux 01:03:55 Yes, I squeezed all of the juice out down to just one.

Kerry Barett 01:03:59 You sure.

Kerry Barett 01:03:59 Did.

Kerry Barett 01:04:00 The biggest thing that attorneys struggle with is I hear a lot about time. I hear a lot about tech. Once you understand the tech and really all you need is a face, a phone and a voice that the tech doesn't have to get any more complex than that. Once you have a process and a workflow, that time issue, I can create a video from setting up my studio, writing the script. I've already got hair and makeup done.

Kerry Barett 01:04:25 But you know.

Kerry Barett 01:04:26 Delivering the script, editing the script or editing the video, running it through captions and posting it on LinkedIn from beginning to end, I mean, from real beginning to end and breaking the studio down again.

Kerry Barett 01:04:37 15 minutes. You can do this in between, between calls. So it's time and tech. But the real issue, when you get down to it is fear. It's fear of judgment from peers. It's fear, which is the biggest one. It's fear of judgment from clients. But I think the peer thing is, is even stronger. I know, in fact, that it's stronger. Video is not going anywhere. It is going to become sort of like if you had a company 15 years ago and you didn't have a website, you could still kind of be legit. And nowadays that's not how it works anymore. If you don't have a website, you're not legit. Like video is moving in that direction. You're going to have to master it. The people who are mastering it now are the ones who are going to be crushing you five years from now. So the time best time to do it was yesterday. Second best time to do it is today. And really open up your phone riff into it for 30s.

Kerry Barett 01:05:26 I know I've already covered this, but I'm going to underscore it's the easiest way to get started.

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:30 I love.

Kerry Barett 01:05:30 It.

Tyson Mutrux 01:05:31 Yeah, thank you for doing this, Carrie.

Kerry Barett 01:05:32 Appreciate it.

Kerry Barett 01:05:32 My pleasure. Thank you for having me.